Panasonic HDC-SD200 - general advice

[steve_e]

Hi -
I've just bought this SDHC card HD camcorder and I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the new concepts, so wondered if anyone could give me some general pointers.

I'd like to use Visual Studio to edit video on my PC as I don't like the supplied software (HD Writer). I have an old version of VS (version 9) and assume I'll need to upgrade to a later version. So these are the questions:

1 I read on some topics here that VS X2 has trouble with AVCHD files, which I think is the format that the camcorder records in. Is there a version of VS that I should avoid and one that I should use?

2 The files I've copied over with HD Writer so far are not recognisable with anything other than HD Writer. Each vidio seems to come with three files - two small ones (.cont and .iis) and one large one (M2TS). Are these proprietary to Panasonic or will VS be able to process them?

3 Once I have a recent version of VS, can I use it to transfer the video to my PC or will I still need to copy them using HD Writer?

4 Is it possible to convert the HD video recorded on the camcorder into standard definition video that can be burned to DVD or uploaded to websites, or am I stuck with HD? The panasonic manual seems to indicate that it can be converted to MPEG2 but the procedure described doesn't seem to be available on my HD Writer.

Apologies if this is available on other threads. I have tried searching and reading but only got more confused, so need a newbie helping hand if anyone is able to offer it! [/list]

[DVDDoug]

1 I read on some topics here that VS X2 has trouble with AVCHD files, which I think is the format that the camcorder records in. Is there a version of VS that I should avoid and one that I should use?

True. It seems to have trouble with the AVCHD files from some cameras. The latest version is Video Studio Pro X2. I suggest you download the trial version. Your odds are best with X2, since AVCHD is one of the newer formats, and I think you can only buy the latest version anyway. (Corel has discounted X2 which might indicate that a new version is on the way.)

2 The files I've copied over with HD Writer so far are not recognisable with anything other than HD Writer. Each vidio seems to come with three files - two small ones (.cont and .iis) and one large one (M2TS). Are these proprietary to Panasonic or will VS be able to process them?

The M2TS file is the audio/video file. I don't know what the other files are.

Once I have a recent version of VS, can I use it to transfer the video to my PC or will I still need to copy them using HD Writer?

The camera should "look like" a hard drive to the computer, and you should be able to open the files directly with Video Studio, or drag them to a hard drive with Windows Explorer, etc.

4 Is it possible to convert the HD video recorded on the camcorder into standard definition video that can be burned to DVD or uploaded to websites, or am I stuck with HD? The panasonic manual seems to indicate that it can be converted to MPEG2 but the procedure described doesn't seem to be available on my HD Writer.

Yes. You can convert to another format. Go to the Share tab and create a video file in a format of your choice. You may find it easier to convert the file before editing. You can also try using a 3rd party conversion program such as SUPER (FREE!!!), to convert the files before or after editing.

[Ken Berry]

Just to add a little to Doug's reply (with which I totally agree), AVCHD is possibly the most demanding of the video formats currently on the consumer market. In particular, it requires a fairly powerful computer just to be able to play it smoothly. At minimum, you will need a decent Core 2 Duo (or equivalent AMD) processor to do this. You have not filled in your system specifications so we have no idea what sort of computer you are using, but the above is the minimum necessary to be able to even play AVCHD...

Oddly enough, editing AVCHD is slightly less demanding, and a P4 3.0 Ghz with hyperthreading will allow you to edit the AVCHD when you use the SmartProxy feature of Video Studio. SmartProxy is a handy feature which converts your AVCHD original videos into temporary standard definition mpeg-2 files which are much easier and faster to edit. You finish your editing of the proxies, then apply the editing back to the AVCHD. But note that if you have a P4 as described above, while it will be able to produce a properly edited AVCHD end product, it will not be able to play it smoothly. I know -- I have tried it. The edited file played back jerkily on my P4, and I thought that was as good as it got. But when I transferred the clip to a new Core 2 Duo 2.2 Ghz laptop, it played smoothly.

The other thing you need to know about AVCHD, which the camera manufacturers don't tell you (just as they never mention the powerful computer requirement! ) is that none of them appear to have agreed on a single standard for the AVCHD codec. There is an internationally agreed standard, yes, but each of the major video camera manufacturers seem to have tweaked it in their own particular way. Sony and Panasonic are the worst 'offenders' in this regard, and whether it is done to lock their users into their own proprietary software (such as Panasonic's rather pitiful HD Writer) or because they genuinely believe their tweaks improve on the international standard, I cannot say.

But suffice it to say that the AVCHD videos from Sony, Panasonic, Canon and JVC all seem to differ in one way or another, and all present problems for the software manufacturers (like Corel) who are trying to produce a one-size-fits-all program. The end-result is far from satisfactory all round, with the user being the biggest loser...

That being said, your own particular camera at least sticks to the more usual parameters, notably on the maximum variable bitrate it films at of 17 Mbps. (The international standard was increased last year to 24 Mbps, and one or two of the camera manufacturers have brought out models using that. But since VS X2 came out well before that change, it cannot handle AVCHD from such cameras.)

And all this does not take into account the recent emergence of another variant: AVCHD-Lite, which comes with its own raft of problems. But fortunately, with your camcorder, you don't have to worry about this!!

The third thing you need to know about X2 and AVCHD is that it has one serious bug: when using transitions between clips, there is a momentary blip or jump around the transition point which unfortunately is very noticeable. The only direct way round it is to avoid transitions and use straight cuts instead, but this is hardly an acceptable outcome for an otherwise sophisticated program. Corel has been aware of the problem since X2 was first issued well over a year ago, but they have refused to do anything about it. WE remain ever-hopeful that things might improve with the next version of the program...

There are a couple of work-arounds for this bug: the first is to convert the AVCHD to HDV (high definition mpeg-2 -- AVCHD is mpeg-4). HDV does not have the same bug and is certainly of equal quality to AVCHD. The other work-around (which I have not yet tried) is apparently to first "convert" your original AVCHD out of the camera back to X2-style AVCHD by simply inserting the individual clips into the X2 timeline, not doing any editing, and Share > Create File > AVCHD using the same properties as the original. This apparently removes any of the tweaks used by the camera manufacturers and makes the video X2-friendly.

As you might deduce from the tone of some of my comments, I am not suggesting that Corel is wholly blameless in all of this. They aren't. (By the way, none of us who are regulars here work for Corel. We are all users just like you who volunteer their time to help out on the Board. So we feel free to speak out mind from time to time... )

But like Doug, in the end all I can suggest is that you download the trial version of X2 and see how it works for you (provided, of course, you have a powerful enough computer!!)

[aljimenez]

Just to add a little to Doug's reply (with which I totally agree), AVCHD is possibly the most demanding of the video formats currently on the consumer market. In particular, it requires a fairly powerful computer just to be able to play it smoothly. At minimum, you will need a decent Core 2 Duo (or equivalent AMD) processor to do this. You have not filled in your system specifications so we have no idea what sort of computer you are using, but the above is the minimum necessary to be able to even play AVCHD...

While I have observed this to be true at the current time, namely that slow computers with small amounts of main memory have lots of difficulty playing AVCHD files, I don't understand how the small, low power cpu with small amounts of main memory in the cameras play them smoothly.

I own one of the new wonderful Panasonic LUMIX DMC-ZS3 with video recording in AVCHD-Lite which is 1280x720 at 25 frames per second. The videos are incredibly high quality for a camera that sells for under $300 at Costco and fits in my pocket. The camera plays them smoothly without any problems whatsoever. However in a modern laptop with 4GB of main memory it only plays smoothly if nothing else is running. I currently use Free HD Converter to incorporate these files in Visual Studio X2... Al

[Ken Berry]

Al -- I quite agree. I don't understand it either, much less why the basic editing programs that come with the cameras seem to have no trouble editing where more sophisticated programs do. Nevertheless, it is a reality, and one which I am sure we all hope companies like Corel will crack soon!!

By the way, both Al and steve-e might want to note that the program is called *Video* Studio, not Visual Studio, which is a completely different product brought out by Microsoft and which has nothing to do with video editing...

[steve_e]

Thanks, Doug and Ken for those very detailed and useful replies, which have saved me hours of googling, research and mistakes!

I think the PC is powerful enough - it's an early core2duo but with plenty of ram and a good graphics card, and certainly seems to be able to play the unedited AVCHD videos smoothly. If not I guess I'll need to upgrade the processor; I'll put the specs on my system up here when I've checked what they currently are.

I'll download Video Studio (!!) X2 Pro and let you know how I get on. Many thanks again for the leg-up into this strange new world!

Regard

[mitchell65]

2 The files I've copied over with HD Writer so far are not recognisable with anything other than HD Writer. Each vidio seems to come with three files - two small ones (.cont and .iis) and one large one (M2TS). Are these proprietary to Panasonic or will VS be able to process them?

You will be able to import the M2TS files straight into VS x2Pro and edit them. I think you can just forget the other two small files, they appear to be peculiar to your camera. All of your video and sound will be in the M2TS files.

[alanball]

Question for DVDdough,

I often see "Super" recommended and have looked at the web site but when I try to down load "Super" I am directed to AVS Video converter, is this the Super program?

Thanks

[Ken Berry]

No, it is not. That is just an ad for another program. Unfortunately, the eright site for SUPER is thoroughly confusing, perhaps deliberately so... but well worth the effort to penetrate. If you go to http://www.erightsoft.com/S6Kg1.html and go right to the bottom of the page, ignoring yet another ad for the other video converter, you will see a download link to "Download SUPER © setup file from our 2nd dedicated server". Use that to get the latest version (2 January 2010).

[alanball]

Thanks for that Ken, I have been back to that site a number of times with the intension of downloading SUPER and given up, it sure is a mine filed
but downloaded it now thanks to your help

Regards

[steve_e]

lol - glad it wasn't just me. I spent some time on the eright site looping around various pages this afternoon before stumbling upon the correct link!

Mind you, starting up the software instigates a whole new heap of questions...

[aa7dj]

you will see a download link to "Download SUPER ?setup file from our 2nd dedicated server".

Hi Ken,
Sorry I didn't find that link. Where it is?
I tried several times to get a "Super" but it gives me AVS 6.3 video converter. Is it what you call a "Super"?

Thank you.

[Ken Berry]

If you look at the link in my last post above, then at the bottom of that page, in small print, are the words I mention. The big ad is NOT, repeat NOT, SUPER... The words are below the ad... and SUPER is called SUPER, not anything else...

[Black Lab]

I have to say, I'm not seeing it either.

The way I found it was to:

1. Click on the link provided by Ken.

2. At the bottom of that page, just above the ad for AVS Video Converter, you will find the following paragraph:

To download from this site without looping back to the same page you need to:
Enable your JavaScript, clear your Browser cache, do not block your http_referrer (with ZoneAlarm or similar), do not use a proxy.
Queries concerning this issue will not be answered. Here's a download help guide.

3. Click on that download help guide for instructions.

[Ken Berry]

The trouble is that the link I provided seems to have expired, and took even me back to the main page of the website. After navigating back, I got the same page link!! And could download...