VS9. Observations after two weeks use

phaydon · Post by **phaydon** » Wed May 11, 2005 12:29 pm

I've been using the full retail boxed version of VS9 for about 2 weeks now, having upgraded from VS8, and thought I would pass on my observations. Some of these observations have already been mentioned by other users in the forum.

Hardware:
P4 3.0GHz Northwood
ABIT IS7 motherboard, 512Mb dual channel DDR
120gig Seagate SATA disk partitioned as drive C: (FAT32 9gig), drive D: (NTFS 94gig), drive E: (FAT32 8gig)
LiteOn LDW851S DVD writer
Leadtek Winfast TV2000 XP Expert capture card (analogue capture via composite input)

Capture/render/burn profile settings
MPEG files
PAL (25 fps) 720 x 576
Upper Field First,
Video data rate: CBR 6,000 kbps
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo
Smartrender OFF
Anti-flicker filter ON

Observations:
1. Audio sync.
This appears greatly improved but with some provisos. Clips captured with VS9 show OK sync on finished VOBs and DVDs (most of the time). Just when I thought Ulead had cracked the sync problem I produced a DVD yesterday where sync was slightly off. The project was 90 minutes long, comprising two 45 minutes clips (after editing from 60 minute clips each). Both captured with VS9, edited using multi-trim and then rendered. The first clip was slightly off on lip sync (mouth shapes didn't look right during speech) and the second clip was close to perfect. Raw footage showed OK sync. This was the first time this happened out of five similar 90 minute DVDs produced with VS9 so I might have made a mistake at some stage. I'm currently experimenting with new projects to confirm this.

DVDs built from clips captured with VS8 and edited/burned with VS9 show sync problems in the finished VOB and DVD. Out of curiosity I tried some of the old VS8 work rounds on VS9 such as regressing the DVD burn engine in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Ulead Systems\DVD, producing the DVD by means of Share/Create Disc/Add VideoStudio Project as well as Share/Create Disc/Add Video but with no improvement in sync. Regressing the burn engine prevented the DVD building stage from working altogether, and the two Share/Create Disc methods showed identical sync issues. Interestingly I was later able to achieve acceptable (but not perfect) sync with these clips in VS8 using the various VS8 work rounds.

2. Pulsating pixels
All MPEG clips captured with VS9 have shown pulsating pixels throughout the clips. This is mainly evident on stationary or slower moving objects in the clip. I've been able to reduce the pulsating effect by changing from VBR to CBR during capture but have been unable to get rid of it. Interestingly all clips captured with VS8 since installing VS9 also show pulsating pixels which suggests to me that the capture codec is causing this.

Any ideas on how I can prevent this pulsating? I haven't tried capturing in AVI because I have never been able to capture an AVI clip where the audio has been in sync for longer than 10 minutes where as I have had MPEG clips staying in sync for up to three hours. Audio sync is more important to me than pulsating free clips.

3. Menu Template problems
VS9 appears to have a problem when using certain VS8 based DVD menu templates. I've produced projects in VS9 using a customised VS8 template and have been able to add videos to the project, edit titles, create chapters etc and save the project. However if I then re-open the project and try to work with it via Share/Create Disc, I can get as far as the first stage i.e. the Add Video Add/ Edit Chapter screen but clicking on Next to go to the currently displayed menu screen causes VS9 to crash (the template works OK in VS8). If I repeat the project from scratch but with a different template then VS9 works fine. The VS template in question that causes this problem is file ref cool13.ufo in VS8 and cool05.ufo in VS9. The file refs are different but the templates look to be the same. I've tried half a dozen different templates at random and VS9 worked OK with them all. It's just my luck that all my custom templates have been based on the one template that causes the problem. My work round has been to avoid that suspect template and base my custom templates on one that I've confirmed works OK in VS9.

4. Windows Media Player
Installing VS9 breaks WMP 9 for playing back MPEGs and DVDs, causing jerky/slowing down/speeding up playback and that peculiar almost 16:9 but not quite screen for vids that should be 4:3. I've been thinking of downloading and installing WMP 10 after installing VS9 to see if this fixes things. Has anyone tried doing this?

So overall I think VS9 produces DVDs with better audio sync than VS8 and I will use VS9 for new projects. I have some projects that were started in VS8 and are work in progress (still some capturing to do) and will use VS8 to complete these projects. The pulsating pixel problem is a nuisance and I hope I can sort it out. The Media Player problem means that I can't reliably view VOB files with WMP 9 any more so I now use Nero Showtime instead.

Pete

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Wed May 11, 2005 1:42 pm

Capturing to Avi

When you say you capture to Avi is this DV-Avi or from an analogue source and re-coded during capture.
Capturing from a digital source should not produce OOS as the footage is copied to VS rather than being re-coded.

Reading your comments on capture seem to suggest that your out of sync’ problems arise during capture rather than during editing.

Are you having problems with dropped frames during capture?

phaydon · Post by **phaydon** » Wed May 11, 2005 2:12 pm

Hi Trevor
I've tried capturing AVI from an analogue source (haven't got DV capture facilities). Raw footage was OOS before editing.
I set the format in VS to AVI and tried software compression both on and off. Was never sure what compression settings to use in VS so tried most of the ones in the drop down list. In the end I gave up because AVI capturing seemed to be too much of a black art. MPEG capturing is much more straight forward. I've also tried AVI capturing using Virtual Dub, Winfast PVR, Virtual VCR and Pinnacle Studio with the same lack of success. Virtual Dub didn't show any dropped frames during a 45 minutes capture but clip was still OOS (about 5 seconds out at the end of the clip).

At least with MPEG capturing I've a better idea of settings to alter and find it easier to work round the little challengs that VS throws up.

Pete

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Wed May 11, 2005 3:07 pm

Pete,
Re pulsating pixels, have you tried raising the capture bit rate to 8Mbps? I have captured a lot of fresh video with VS9 at VBR=8Mbps directly to mpeg2 and did not experience any video or OOS problems.
John

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Wed May 11, 2005 3:29 pm

Quote---Raw footage was OOS before editing--

Hi phaydon

There are two basic types of getting video in to your pc.

Digital capture, the best option,
Using Firewire or I-link, as the footage from a digital camera is ‘COPIED’ to the pc.

Analogue capture.
Capturing using Composite or S-Video cables.
This method requires a capture card, the captured video is re-coded during capture.

The higher the compression the more work your pc has to do.
The lower the compression the larger the file size.

USB.
If you are capturing by Usb , (I have not used) but as far as I have heard this is the pits.

Depending on your pc and the type of capture template you use may result in dropped frames.
Not Good.

Using VS 9 you can use the drop frame counter.

From File / Preferences / capture tab / show drop frame counter

Conclusion
If you have a camera with DV-out buy a Firewire card for your computer (well worth it )

Try the drop frame counter
Any drop frames even one is not good

Good Luck

Trevor

phaydon · Post by **phaydon** » Wed May 11, 2005 3:48 pm

jchunter wrote "have you tried raising the capture bit rate to 8Mbps?"

John, you must be psychic! I had been wondering about trying a couple of 45 minute captures at 8Mbps VBR to see how it goes. The only reason I capture at 6Mbps is because most of my projects are approx. 90 minutes long and they comfortably fit on a single layer DVD at this capture rate. I used to capture at 8Mbps in VS8 but most projects were just that little bit too big to fit on a single layer DVD and needed DVD Shrink to get them to fit. I didn't like spending the extra time on this shrink to fit stage. I think I will try increasing to 8Mbps VBR and then use either Nero Recode or DVD Shrink. If it cures the pulsing problem then I could live with the extra production stage. Another thing I'm going to try (eventually, in about a week) is to restore my hard disk to a pre VideoStudio state ( I've got a hard drive backup taken before any Ulead software was installed) and then do a clean install of VS9, just in case VS8 might be contributing to the problem. Seems unlikely I know, but its an easy thing to check.

Pete.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Wed May 11, 2005 4:26 pm

Hi,
VS9,
I don't know how your editing the mpg files.
I've used the "Multi-Trim" and so far if I only choose the
'KEEP" (default) setting it's been working.
If when I go into the Multi-Trim module and toggle that icon which
selects to Retain/Remove it caused audio sync.

You can try when using Multi-Trim to never hit the icon and mark the video
for the sections that you want to keep.
It's been working on mine, at least so far.

I would also try a different capture card to see if the problem is in
your capture card.
With smartrender disabled you shouldn't have these problems.

MD

phaydon · Post by **phaydon** » Wed May 11, 2005 10:39 pm

Hi maddrummer3301

I'm not really having any issues with audio sync with mpg files because I can work around the problem. What I've noticed on my setup is that I have problems if I use VS9 to finish projects that were started in VS8. The audio sync in projects I've produced with VS9 is generally OK if the mpg clip was captured with VS9. I have problems with audio sync when using VS9 to produce projects using clips that were captured with VS8. However if I use VS8 to edit those same VS8 captured clips (using the work rounds for OOS that have been commented on in the forum) then I can achieve generally better audio sync in the VS8 finished project than when I use VS9 on those clips to complete the project. The editing method I use is identical in both VS8 and VS9 i.e. use Multi-trim Video to keep the selected parts of the clip being edited.

The only major problem I have had with audio sync is when I've tried AVI file capturing (analogue source via composite input) and have never been able to get raw footage that was in sync "as captured" for longer than 10 minutes. But this hasn't been an issue for me as I have been happy with the quality I get from mpg capturing upto now. I made the point about why I don't do AVI captures (i.e.OOS problems) to highlight why I haven't tried AVI capturing as a possible cure for the problem I had with pulsing pixels in mpg clips. Looking at my original post I see I missed out from the capture profile settings that the capture format is set to DVD so I probably didn't express myself clearly enough. I'm sorry if I misled anyone over this but being unable to capture OK AVI files isn't an issue for me. I appreciate everyone's comments about AVI capturing all the same because I've often wondered what I was doing wrong.

Pete

GeorgeK · Post by **GeorgeK** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:37 pm

Using VS 9 you can use the drop frame counter.

To ask, has anyone been able to get the UVS9 drop frame counter to report dropped frames ? If so how? (eg what settings, PC speed/type do you use).

Using UVS8, I found that if I went above 7000 CBR I would get dropped frames, at 8000 CBR a few dropped frames, and above this lots of dropped frames (Note: to get UVS8 to show dropped frames, there is a setting in the UVS.INI file).

However using UVS9, I have not been able to find a setting (tried upto 9000 CBR and VBR) and no count of Dropped frames (yes, I had the option enabled), and I would be enclined to think that UVS9 can capture much better, except that I can see the "video skip" from time to time.

What do others find?

I doubt if this would be causing issues for phaydon as he is using 6000 bit rate, and I have no issues at a lower bit rate.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:38 pm

Hi for phaydon

phaydon wrote:
The only major problem I have had with audio sync is when I've tried AVI file capturing (analogue source via composite input) and have never been able to get raw footage that was in sync "as captured" for longer than 10 minutes. But this hasn't been an issue for me as I have been happy with the quality I get from mpg capturing upto now. I made the point about why I don't do AVI captures (i.e.OOS problems)
Pete

Ok
The way I see it

Capturing, you have two main options, Analogue and Digital.

If you have a digital device, camcorder, then you are best using a Firewire or I-link to capture.
This method actually copies the footage from your camera to the pc without re-coding.

The information in your camera is Dv-Avi this is copied direct to the pc as Dv-Avi, what you have is what you get… Nothing is lost.
This is the best capture option.
The drawback (takes longer in time) is that at some time you have to re-code to Mpeg2 in order to burn a Dvd, but this is done not in real time but at the speed of your pc. (from your hard drive)
One hour may take three hours.

If your only option is Analogue then the capture process re-codes your footage to the format of your choice. Mpeg / Dvd / svcd /vcd/ wmv/ and so on.

Capturing from analogue, your pc has to be fast / efficient enough to do the job.
The incoming data has to be re-coded in real time whilst your camera is running.
If your pc cannot keep up with the stream of data being passed to it then you get Dropped Frames.
If the input device produces a poor signal you will get dropped frames.

Once you have captured you edit and finally burn a Dvd.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the settings you use for burning match the capture settings then editing and ‘Create Video File’ process will be much easier on your pc’s capability.

I assume you only have Analogue capture facilities.

Capture to Pal-Dvd or Ntsc-Dvd selecting the bit rate to match the length of the final video.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you are advised to capture to Dv –Avi this is assuming that you have a digital source.

So why capture to Avi from analogue (requires recoding on the fly) then recode to Mpeg.
When you can capture to Mpeg.

I realise I may be shot down here as you can capture raw Avi at 60Gb / hr
But if you cannot capture to the Dvd template without dropped frames then you need to improve the efficiency of your pc.

As for Dropped Frames, there should be NONE.

Hope this helps