I Need - NAY Must be able to produce Pal and NTSC videos!

[laidback]

I need to be able to create both Pal and NTSC AVCHD videos using a single computer..

Is there an easier way than to have two users set up on the computer, so that every time I need Pal or NTSC format, I need to log into the right user set up for Pal or NTSC, and do a repair to VS Pro X2 Ultimate, and then install that critical patch and then after all editing is done, one crosses ones fingers, and hopes after hours of rendering VS Prox 2 does not fail!

I mean why not have Far~Ken both Pal and NTSC options installed as other PROFESSIONAL NLE's do? WHY~COREL~WHY!???

Sorry, and yeah I know this is a user to user forum, but I reason that a Professional application means it should consider it is used by professionals that more than likely will be working with all video formats including videos not from ones locality!

Sigh~OK I have had my beech, so yeah anybody else got a quicker and or better method than mine when one has to produce both Pal and NTSC Videos?

Cheers,

Pete..

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Pete

When you install VS you are prompted to select a country or Pal/Ntsc
This sets the default properties of the project and templates to the selected one.

There is no reason why you cannot manually change these properties.

For project properties
File Project Properties ¡V Edit you can select either Pal or NTSC/DVD

The Make Movie Manager will use the default option but can be changed to the other.

There is no problem in creating Pal or NTSC versions with Video Studio.

[Black Lab]

Even though "Pro" is part of the name of the product I would not consider VS X2 to be a professional application. It is geared toward the more advanced hobbyist. That is not to say you can't make a professional video with it, but as you have discovered it does not contain some of the features that a true professional editor has (hence the affordable price).

[Ken Berry]

I would have to chip in and add that even with the truly professional packages, producing the two varieties from set of source video is not particularly easy. If you think about it, if you start life with, say, PAL video, it runs at 25 frames per second and has a frame size of 720 x 576. To convert that to NTSC, 4.97 frames per second have to be invented, largely out of thin air or existing frames; and 96 pixels have to be chopped horizontally. And the reverse if you start with NTSC video.

The only program I have used that seems to do this well, is the Canopus Procoder program which is specialised, rather than an editing program. It is expensive and not particularly straightforward.

Personally, I rely on the fact that these days, most of the cheaper Chinese and Korean DVD players available around the world, whether NTSC or PAL, can play both formats (though apparently this is easier with PAL players and NTSC players can be a bit more choosy).

[skier-hughes]

Yep, procoder is great, sorenson squeeze also does a great job and either is required for those pro conversion jobs.

I was assuming though that he was going to start with a pal or ntsc video file and end the same, as no pro would use such an app for the conversion job

[laidback]

Hi Pete

When you install VS you are prompted to select a country or Pal/NTSC
This sets the default properties of the project and templates to the selected one.

Hi Trevor,
I am acutely aware of this procedure, and its the reason for my woes..

There is no reason why you cannot manually change these properties.

For project properties
File Project Properties ¡V Edit you can select either Pal or NTSC/DVD

<sigh> Been there, tried that, The problem is when you try and share and create either a Pal or NTSC the only choice given is one format, try it, and see if both Pal and NTSC options are available

The Make Movie Manager will use the default option but can be changed to the other.

The same goes here, as my previous statement, and I found if I don't have two Computer users with separate Installations, one Pal and one NTSC, I have to go through a longer uninstall and re-install, followed by latest patch, the way I have got it set up all I do is a repair, and re-install of latest patch

There is no problem in creating Pal or NTSC versions with Video Studio.

Agreed, but its only possible via installing VS ProX2 into each users personal folder.. but it comes with many strange erratic quirks and errors, that don't show up until at least 5~8 hours of rendering of ones latest creation..
So yeah~anyway, Thanks for your response Trevor,

Cheers,

Pete..

[laidback]

I would have to chip in and add that even with the truly professional packages, producing the two varieties from set of source video is not particularly easy. If you think about it, if you start life with, say, PAL video, it runs at 25 frames per second and has a frame size of 720 x 576. To convert that to NTSC, 4.97 frames per second have to be invented, largely out of thin air or existing frames; and 96 pixels have to be chopped horizontally. And the reverse if you start with NTSC video.

The only program I have used that seems to do this well, is the Canopus Pro-coder program which is specialised, rather than an editing program. It is expensive and not particularly straightforward.

Personally, I rely on the fact that these days, most of the cheaper Chinese and Korean DVD players available around the world, whether NTSC or PAL, can play both formats (though apparently this is easier with PAL players and NTSC players can be a bit more choosy).

me thinks Canopus Pro-coder might be the way to go, but only if its better than Total Media Extreme, and I should point out that's a big ask just to match it..

Cheers,

Pete..

[LEEPETER]

Hi
I have been using Procoder for Years, recently moved up to Procoder 3.

It is a very good program, the amount of tweakable presets is unbelievable.

Audio conversion as well.

H264 to MPEG2 HD is excellent.


Regards.


Peter

[skier-hughes]

[File Project Properties ¡V Edit you can select either Pal or NTSC/DVD

<sigh> Been there, tried that, The problem is when you try and share and create either a Pal or NTSC the only choice given is one format, try it, and see if both Pal and NTSC options are available
Cheers,

Pete..[/quote]

You want to output both ntsc or pal from one format on one timeline.
You ain't going to do it from VS.
You could buy one of the thomson grass valley editing products (Edius) which will encorporate an encoder that will do it for you.
It's superb, I use it.
http://professional.grassvalley.com/products/edius/
&pound;50 off at the moment from
http://www.dvc.uk.com/acatalog/Canopus_Edius_Pro.html
Only &pound;575.
Or you output your pal version from the timeline and then encode it to ntsc with procoder
Only &pound;391
http://www.dvc.uk.com/cgi-bin/sh000001. ... 3a462#a462

Totally different league to media extreme, we are talking professional products here.

[laidback]

<sigh> Been there, tried that, The problem is when you try and share and create either a Pal or NTSC the only choice given is one format, try it, and see if both Pal and NTSC options are available
Cheers,

Pete..

You want to output both ntsc or pal from one format on one timeline.
You ain't going to do it from VS.

Well I am doing it, but its a pain because once I have put together a movie using a bunch of NTSC AVCHD Camcorder videos via a NTSC VS ProX2 I render a NTSC AVCHD video, and then once it is done, I log off my NTSC computer account and log into My computer account with A "Pal" VS ProX2 installed, and then do a repair to it because at the moment Pal Vs ProX2 has NTSC files installed, because no matter where I install VS ProX2 it still corrupts the other Formats installation on the other account..

Anyway what I do is repair the Pal installation, followed by the latest patch which BTW corrupts the NTSC installation, to which I then load the latest project that just completed rendering a NTSC AVCHD video and I then Render a Pal HD AVCHD video.. after that is finished I log off the Pal account and log back into the NTSC account and then repair that, ready for the next time I am to create videos, but mind you each repair corrupts the other Installation..

You could buy one of the thomson grass valley editing products (Edius) which will incorporate an encoder that will do it for you.
It's superb, I use it.
http://professional.grassvalley.com/products/edius/
&pound;50 off at the moment from
http://www.dvc.uk.com/acatalog/Canopus_Edius_Pro.html
Only &pound;575.
Or you output your pal version from the timeline and then encode it to ntsc with procoder
Only &pound;391
http://www.dvc.uk.com/cgi-bin/sh000001. ... 3a462#a462

Totally different league to media extreme, we are talking professional products here.

I have to keep that in mind, if I ever have a weeks Pension to spare..
Of course for that money I can also get a really good system box, and just have one computer for NTSC and the other one then for PAL..

Thanks anyway for the advice Skier,

Pete..

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Pete

Once you have changed the Project Properties to match either Pal or Ntsc,
you do share Create Video File, then choose Same As Project Settings.

Make Movie Manager
Allows you to create templates in Pal or Ntsc and many more.
Once created they show in the Create Video File at the bottom, near the Custom option.
You can customise/create both formats

Custom Option
allows you to select many formats including Pal and Ntsc, although I prefer the ¡¥make movie manager¡¦.

Using standard templates.
Not always what you need, The Pal and Ntsc templates probably use Lower Field when more and more video types are using Upper Field. The bit rates are usually set to maximum, you may need a lower rate. Audio seems to default to LPCM when I prefer Digital Dolby. Not much really going for the standard templates.

And now I am confused as to why you think you have to do an install in order to create a different template when Video Studio provides the tools to create your own.

[skier-hughes]

As Ken mentioned above PAL and NTSC are totally different things and using something like VS to convert doesn't do a proper job. You mention pension, so maybe we are too assume you are not doing this professionaly and the VS method will suffice. I took your mention of the word professional in VS's title to assume you perhaps were doing it for reward.

You say you are doing it from one time line, but in effect you are not, as you have to do all that work. Edius will allow you to edit multiple formats on one timeline, then output from that timeline to any number of formats, HD, mpeg2, dv.avi, flash, in either PAL or NTSC wihtout even having to open and close the programme, let alone re-install.

But then, with everything, you pays your money and makes your choice

[laidback]

Hi Pete

Once you have changed the Project Properties to match either Pal or NTSC,
you do share Create Video File, then choose Same As Project Settings.

Make Movie Manager
Allows you to create templates in Pal or NTSC and many more.
Once created they show in the Create Video File at the bottom, near the Custom option.
You can customise/create both formats

Custom Option
allows you to select many formats including Pal and NTSC, although I prefer the ¡¥make movie manager¡¦.

Using standard templates.
Not always what you need, The Pal and NTSC templates probably use Lower Field when more and more video types are using Upper Field. The bit rates are usually set to maximum, you may need a lower rate. Audio seems to default to LPCM when I prefer Digital Dolby. Not much really going for the standard templates.

And now I am confused as to why you think you have to do an install in order to create a different template when Video Studio provides the tools to create your own.

<sigh> Trust me I have attempted to customize templates to death, hell - I even installed umpteen codecs and tweaks for said codecs, but all was in vain, as VS ProX2 simply will not allow the creation of both PROPER AVCHD Pal and PROPER NTSC videos with 5.1 Dolby Digital sound, oh sure if one is content that their 5.1 Dolby Digital videos are spewed out with crappy stereo or tiny frames sizes say around a DVDs frame size then no Problems, but I work with HD videos, meaning the available frame sizes and bit rates are no where near what they need to be..

The reality is for 5.1 Dolby Digital HD videos with larger larger frames whatever, be it PAL or NTSC AVCHD, its simply not possible, with only one installation..

Oh sure! one can customise templates to almost match AVCHD videos, but the videos don't play properly in HD multimedia players, no matter what format I tried, including Avi, Mpg, Mp4 and or even Wmv, all result without the precious 5.1 surround so really they just didn't work properly, so I gave up months ago..

That's why I have resorted to, two accounts on my computer - one named Pal the other NTSC, and each has its respective VS ProX2 installation installed in the users folder, so that it was possible to install two installations on the one system, but here's the thing, when one installs a Pal installation after an NTSC installation, the NTSC ends up as a Pal installation, and this goes vice Vs, so when I log in and repair one, the other is returned to unusable, so I have to repair and install the patch before I can use the other installation again..

What would be absolutely great is if both NTSC AVCHD and PAL AVCHD templates were readily available which they sort of are, but importantly without 5.1 Dolby Digital, Oh! - And if I were corel - That stupid region option when installing VS ProX2 would be given the flick, so that both PAL and NTSC formats can be rendered, meaning there will be only one type of installation world wide..

cheers,

Pete..

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Pete

Oh 5.1 Dolby Digital HD

I am certain that Ken Berry has a template for AVCHD that contains DD 5.1.
Offering this for download about 4 weeks ago.
I think its in the form of a short video that you add to the make movie manager.
Whether is contains the same video properties that you require, I don¡¦t know.
But if he has managed to make one then he can probably make more.
Unfortunately If you subsequently edit the template you loose the 5.1 option.

I may be wrong but feel it is worth following up.

[Ken Berry]

And I am currently travelling overseas at the moment (did the pyramids this morning! ) and don't have the template on the computer I have with me... Won't be home for another few days.