My mother-in-law and the constant video data rate

[maxfrost01]

Here's todays teaser.

I'm burning standard def. DVDs from High Def mpeg2 files.
I recall reading (I think inan SJJ tutorial) that the maximum video data rate recommended is a constant 8,000 kbps. This should play on most recent DVD players.

And on my inexpensive DVD player (now about 3 years old) my DVDs play just fine - not as good as when I play High Def but just fine.

Now, take my mother-in-law, no, please, take my mother-in-law (old ones are still the best), when she plays her copy of my DVD (which played just fine on my DVD player) she reports really poor colour quality. She brought the DVD back with her on a recent visit just to show me how bad it is (a clear sign of affection) but when played in my DVD player - vivid colours and no problems. Almost certainly a problem with either her DVD player or the color settings on her TV I suspect. Or is it?

Take my father-in-law (no, please, etc) who lives in the States (no longer with my mother-in-law and therefore separate life and separate DVD player). I burn his copy as an NSTC file and he reports that it works fine but then suddenly stops at some apparent random point in the film. Each time he plays it he gets the same thing - it locks up at exactly the same point. Almost certainly something to do with the fact that it's a PAL original converted to NTSC. Or is it?

Finally, take my sister (this gag doesn't work as well by now) living in the UK. Her copy of my DVD, which once again plays perfectly well on my DVD player, does the same thing as US-based father-in-law's. It locks up at the some point during play and she can't get past that point no matter how many times she tries. Almost certainly down to the fact that she is trying to play the DVD in her toaster as she is not very techie. Or is it?

So here is today's teaser........

Are these three separate unrelated random problems perhaps caused by some genetic family strain? oR is there a common link? Perhaps something to do with me using that constand 8000 video data rate?

Answers on a postcard please.

[mitchell65]

For what it's worth, here's my solution to your problem:
FORGET VIDEOS AND TAKE UP GOLF

[skier-hughes]

For what it's worth, here's my solution to your problem:
FORGET VIDEOS AND TAKE UP GOLF

Absolutely great

8,000 is generally accepted as the max rate to use for best compatibility, but this 8000 is to include the audio bitrate as well, so you should set your video bitrate to something like 7500.

Other things to look at are, quality of disc. Better is better!
Burn speed - slow is better
Quality of encoder
TV/dvd connections, do her other dvds play just fine?

[mitchell65]

Seriously though., when you burn multiple discs do you burn to a DVD folder first and then burn each disc from that or do you go down the Share - Create Disc - Burn DVD route? I would hazard a quess that it is the latter but maybe wrong.

[Clevo]

My solution is a win win scenario...

Swap you r TV and DVD player with your M-I-L's set up...she'll love you for it. Sell her set-up on E-bay.... with the money plus a few more move your FIL across the atlantic into PAL Territory... he'll learn to love you for it too.

That sort's out your DVD situation...yes it leaves you short a TV & a DVD player but you have a PC for that and TV tuners are cheap. You'll save a little on electricity of which you can put away for a rainy day.

[mitchell65]

That sort's out your DVD situation...

You've forgotten the Sister, who's going to take her on. Perhaps maxfrost01 could put her on EBay with a note "Only for Sale to owner of modern DVD player"

[maxfrost01]

John/Clevo/Skier

Glad to see that humour is alive and well on the VS forum.
I'm not sure you're taking me seriously.
Do you really think I want my father-in-law back in the UK? A nice stretch of water works well for me.

More seriously,

You're focusing too much on my mother-in-law (which is not an easy thing to do). My point is the coincidence of events i.e. that 3 key members of my vast family audience are getting problems with the DVDs I send them even though each of those DVDs plays fine on my DVD player before I put them in the mail.

John - your guess is right - I go the Share/Create/Burn route.
Skier - discs are good quality, I go for a slower burn rate (8x), don't know what you mean by 'Quality of encoder' and the TV/DVD connections are only relevant if I assume the errors experienced by all 3 users are coincidence and separate issues.

Question: If I try the bitrate at 7500 might that stop these kind of problems? Or is bitrate nothing to do with quality and playability of DVDs?

I know a good way to find out is to try it, but before I start burning and mailing my DVDs around the globe I just wondered if it made sense to any of you gurus that the 8000 constant bitrate could be the cause?

Your swift reponse to my problem would be appreciated.
So would more humour.

[Ken Berry]

You have also left out one vital bit of information: how long is the video you are burning to DVD with the 8000 kbps bitrate. If an hour or less, that is fine. Should work. No problems (even if you have the audio rate tacked on to it -- I do that all the time, and play them just fine on a very wide variety of DVD players, not just at my place, but in all the houses of my friends and family...) But if it is much longer than that, we might need to suggest some alternatives...

[mitchell65]

John - your guess is right - I go the Share/Create/Burn route.

I wonder if this is the problem. As you quite rightly say, with the family so far apart from each other then the trial and error system is difficult. But I think Ken would agree that the best way to get consistent DVD's is to either create a video file of the project or I think the better solution is to burn to folders then just burn them to a disc as and when. I have had no problems with this system but my DVD's only go to UK addresses but they are for a charity so need to be consistent. I haven't had one come back yet. Fingers crossed now . S**s law say I shouldn't have said that!
P.S. Regards to your sister, tell her I shall be putting in a bid

[maxfrost01]

Ken,

My videos are never more than an hour (not sure it would fit on a standard DVD) and usually around 30 to 40 minutes.

Like to hear you views on John's suggestion around burning process/protocol.

Still not sure how the burning process would explain why the DVD plays on my DVD player fine but not on theirs. And I'm talking about the exact same DVD (not a copy) which I test before sending in the mail!

[Black Lab]

Welcome to the world of PC-burned DVDs. I would say your mother-in-laws color problem is a player to TV connection issue, or player/TV settings issue. As for your sister and father-in-law, that sounds like a burning or disc type issue.

You don't say what type of DVD you are using (+ or - R) or what model DVD players these relatives are using.

Most newer models, especially the cheaper ones (for whatever reason) should play just about anything that you shove in it. Older models, however, were usually rated to only play one type of disc (+ or -).

If your relatives are like my parents and inlaws their DVD players are the original units ever produced and have not been upgraded because they, well, still work. Why fix what ain't broke is their mantra.

To be on the safe side I set my video bitrate to 7000. I see no quality difference from a setting of 8000 and I don't have any playback problems. I also use high quality blanks and burn at the slowest speed (4x).

[maxfrost01]

Jeff,

I would agree with your diagnosis of my mother-in-law's problems it sounds like something wrong with her DVD player/TV settings.

I think I'll simply try a 7000 setting on the next burn and see if it stops problems with the other members of my family. Would you go 'constant' or 'variable'?

btw - I use DVD+R Sony's so they should be more than equal to the job - maybe you have a recommendation on some other product that's even more reliable?

And my mother-in-law's DVD Player is almost brand new - I know, I bought the $*?! thing for her!

[Black Lab]

You can try cross-referencing the players with media using THIS CHART. Of course it's not a fail safe method, but may in fact shed some light on a problem player/disc.

Highjacked from another thread:

"using variable results in a (rendered) smaller file file than when using constant" If you have a project you need to get on to a disc and the project is going to come close to the maximum size of the disc then two-pass variable is a good way to allow the codec to apportion the maximum amount of data to high motion scenes and save a bit on low motion areas.
Using a single pass variable always seemed a bit pointless to me as the codec is being asked to estimate the motion on the fly.
With two-pass the program scans through the file once to mark the high and low motion areas and on the second pass the encoding is actually done.
If, however, your project is relatively small and disc real estate is not a problem then a constant bitrate up around 6000 to 8000kps is going to give you a larger file (but you don't care cos' you have acres of space!) at top quality.

In your case I would use Constant.

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Jeff

I remember using the chart sometime ago to try and fix the problem with my US based father-in-law. I was blocked by his inability to find the make or model number anywhere on the machine.

I'll try the lower, constant rate and see what happens.

Thanks as ever,

[Black Lab]

I was blocked by his inability to find the make or model number anywhere on the machine.

I feel your pain.