Page 1 of 1

h.264 files rendered as AVCHD won't play properly

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:13 pm
by ianincrete
I've just got Video Studio Pro X2 and a Sanyo Xacti FH1 camcorder. I shot some video at 1920 x 1080 pixels 60i in MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 and downloaded the files to my hard disk using an SDHC card reader. I have VS set for PAL. I imported the files into VS and made several short videos of about one and a half minutes using Smart Proxy. I added titles and music and then exported the finished projects as video files in the AVCHD PAL 1920 format. When the rendering was finished the files played perfectly in the preview window but they do not play properly in WinDVD. The film jerks along and sticks for a few seconds before continuing again. This happens for about a quarter of the entire clip.

I tried playing it in VLC media player and although it was a little bit jerky the first time I played each clip, it played fine every time I hit the replay button. But if I restarted the computer it was jerky again the first time through, though often in a different part of the clip from the previous time, and then after that it was fine with every replay. In WinDVD it doesn't play well no matter how many times I replay each clip.

What I'd like to know is whether this is a problem with the rendering done by VS or is the problem my computer's inability to play back AVCHD files properly? My computer was largely rebuilt this year with a new motherboard, an AMD Athlon 7750 Dual Core 2.71 GHz processor and 2 Gb of RAM but the graphics card is at least five years old and I have no idea what it is. Does the fact that the jerkiness does not appear consistently in the same part of each clip suggest a computer problem rather than a rendering problem? If so, does anyone have any idea which part of my computer needs upgrading?

Also, I am about to get a Blu-Ray player which plays AVCHD on DVDs and so I want to burn my clips onto DVD in the AVCHD format. Are my clips likely to show the same problems on the Blu-Ray player?

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:11 pm
by skier-hughes
It does sound like a pc problem.
Not helped by the fact you appear to have recorded in NTSC - 60i - but got VS set for PAL 50i.

h.264 files rendered as AVCHD won't play properly

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:51 pm
by ianincrete
The camera only records at 60p or 60i in full HD and it seems you can't change this. All you can change on the camera is the TV setting for showing your clips directly from the camera to your TV. Here you can set it to PAL and the pictures are fine. If I choose NTSC in VS surely this will output clips that aren't suitable for showing on PAL TVs.

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:34 pm
by Ken Berry
One of my difficulties in trying to answer this problem is that while I know a little about AVCHD, I know nothing about AMD processors or their equivalence to Intel processors. However, it strikes me that an AMD Dual Core is similar to an old Intel Dual Core, and is quite different from the modern Core 2 Duos and Quads. To be able to edit, and particularly play back, an AVCHD video smoothly, you have to have at least a Core 2 Duo. So that could be your problem number 1. But it should only affect playback on your computer, not on your TV.

Like Skier-Hughes, I also suspect that your problem number 2 is the frame rate which as you clearly know is NTSC. I am surprised that the camera, which I don't think is a cheap one, cannot film in PAL if as I suspect you bought it in Greece. Or did you buy it in an NTSC country?

But if you edit your video and output it choosing the 60i option in VS it will be at least consistent with the original properties of the video. As it is, if you are choosing PAL 50i output, the program is in effect having to throw away 5 full frames or 10 half frames to bring it down to the PAL framerate. And that of course will translate into jerky movement such as you describe.

But using 60i will also depend on what kind of TV you are talking about. If it is a recent HDTV, it should be able to deal with both 50i and 60i. Certainly my 46 inch Samsung can. Moreover, it can deal with both progressive (p) as well as interlaced (i) video and receive standard definition signals from DVDs with no problems. So I would certainly try the 60i output and see how it looks on your TV, as long as the TV is high definition itself.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:23 am
by ianincrete
Thanks for that. I bought the camera online in the UK from a UK company and Sanyo's UK website gives the camera's spec as 60p and 60i, not 50p or 50i so I don't think I was sold an American import. I did put together another short clip using the NTSC setting in edit and I am afraid that as far as my computer is concerned there was no discernable difference. WinDVD9 wouldn't play the clip properly at all and VLC Media Player played it perfectly after the first jerky runthrough. Why is it that it plays perfectly first time in the VS preview window? I assume it is playing the proper AVCHD file. I'll just have to see what happens on the TV when my Blu-Ray player arrives.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:33 am
by Ken Berry
Just as a general comment, and certainly not meant to be a criticism of your choice of cameras, I am afraid your problem is indicative of a more general problem that still exists with AVCHD. Although there is theoretically now an international standard, that standard changes (e.g. the recent increase in the permissible bitrate from VBR max 18 Mbps to 24 Mbps). And worse, each of the camera manufacturers seems to be applying standards and using formats of their own which are not necessarily fully compliant with the international standard, much less with those of other manufacturers.

Sanyo is one such manufacturer. I recall when the Xacti range first appeared two or three years ago, they had to issue a special driver to resolve problems a lot of users were having. I imagine that driver was swiftly incorporated into software packages such as Video Studio, but of course the camera manufacturers are always trying to 'improve' their product. And that includes Sony and Panasonic as well as Sanyo, and, for all I know, Canon as well. Heck, JVC doesn't even call its equivalent format AVCHD! And now we are seeing the emergence of 'AVCHD Lite', not only in video cameras but also in digital still cameras, which is already causing more than a few problems.

Moreover, not one of the camera manufacturers ever advertises how demanding and difficult the AVCHD format is, let alone the fact that you require at least a Core 2 Duo to be even able to play it smoothly! Then again, the software manufacturers also all too readily claim their product can walk on the moon!

This makes it difficult for software companies such as Corel to keep up or produce a 'one size fits all' solution. Don't get me wrong -- I am not defending Corel or any other software manufacturer. But what I am saying is that it is not their fault alone. :roll: :roll: :lol:

But here endeth the rant! :oops: :evil:

By the way, is your WinDVD 9 the version 'with Blu-Ray' or without? My own version is 'with Blu-Ray' and seems to be able to play all AVCHD I have so far thrown at it. But of course I acknowledge I have never had Xacti output to try it out...