miniDV capture, edit, create DVD, create new miniDV master

Gentamicinman · Post by **Gentamicinman** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:09 am

Greetings -
It has been some time since my last visit (then I was creating DVD from VHS sources)

Now I have in hand years of 8mm and Super 8 movies captured (by commercial lab) to miniDV

Before I turn left instead of right, I'd like some advice.

I want to capture (VS11) from my camera (firewire) and edit - add transitions, delete some stuff, all the normal touchups. Same as I've done before

Then I will burn DVDs of the project -

Then I want to burn/write the updated project back to the a new miniDV for longer term storage and as a new master.

What are the roadblocks or speed traps that I will have to look out for? Are there codecs required for capturing the miniDV or writing a new miniDV? Are there any special gotchas I need to know to handle the new project setting?

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:19 am

Nothing special that I can think of. Editing in DV is just about the most foolproof format to use. Since you intend sending back a master copy to mini-DV, my inclination would be to do all your editing, then render the project to a new single DV file. That can serve as the master. But you could also use it to convert to DVD-compatible mpeg-2, rather than doing that from Share > Create Video File > DVD.

Although that step is in itself pretty foolproof these days, we still get people complaining about out of sync video and audio occasionally. I would think that if you made a new DV and then used that, instead of your project, in the timeline, any possible rendering problem in the conversion to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 would not occur.

And of course the only 'trick' in that particular conversion anyway is to make you keep it Lower Field First throughout, as I am sure you are already aware. And then, when you open the burning module and insert your new mpeg-2, just make sure the 'do not convert' box is ticked in the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen.

Gentamicinman · Post by **Gentamicinman** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:00 pm

Thank you Ken for the response. It makes sense and I appreciate it.

I don't know if this is a valid concern or not.

The original miniDV tape was recorded through some convention employed by the creating hardware - at the conversion house.

When I read it in, the DV file became avi through some conversion or codec. I used WinDV

When using VS11 I recreate from my timeline a VS11 DV image as something.avi , how do I maintain the same encoding that was used when I read it in?

One of the options I have in VS11 is to burn my own DV and again I do not know what options to use to maintain the same quality as the original. Where does one find out this information?

There are so many codecs and choices I'm really uncertain about value of my backup, since I don't really know what choices to make.

Again, any suggestions will be appreciated.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:09 pm

MiniDV is recorded in DV (digital video), and uses the avi wrapper. So any DV will have the extension *.avi.

I also use WinDV when transferring video from my Digital-8 camcorder to my PC. It will only transfer DV via firewire. Your video is not be recoded in this process. It is nothing more than copying the identical data from the Mini-DV tape.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:57 pm

As Ron has already said, DV is just a sub-set of a number of video formats which call themselves .avi. There is nothing wrong with it. It is exactly the same in every way as what was in the camera. Moreover, it is essentially a lossless format, so you can even recode it a number of times and not be able to detect any loss in quality.

More to the point, DV/AVI really only has one set of properties, so you don't have to worry about the property settings once you choose DV as the output format. In other words, DV is DV is DV... even if it calls itself .avi!!

Gentamicinman · Post by **Gentamicinman** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:33 pm

Gentlemen,
Thank you both for the replies - your words are reassuring!

As one who often reinvents the wheel, I had already tried my own validation by creating several generations of the default DV and the custom DV - and each created identical offspring. - with one minor exception.

In both cases the input audio VBR became a CBR - which changed some statistics - however the number of frames, space and of course time remained identical for each version.

Thanks again - I am on my way to copying, editing and backing up more miniDVs.

Gentamicinman · Post by **Gentamicinman** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:10 am

After searching 'writing minidv' and finding my message at the top of the queue, I'm back.
I have also searched with Google and found nothing of use. Even the JVC site is empty of related information.

I've been able to create miniDV ala avi files on my HD - many times.

Now after waiting for a cleaning tape for the minicam, and after cleaning the r/w heads I jumped back into VS11 and started writing - or more correctly, after starting VS11, I selected the aiv from >Edit >Video section and then >Share and >DV Recording, which produces a popup screen to allow positioning of input, I chose to do the whole thing and went to >next - and there the only choice is the red record button.

Recording starts (according to the message in the mini-screen) but neither clock advances and no image is shown on the computre miniscreen.

On the minicam screen a few things happen. The screen slowly fashesbright and dim, 16:9 and 4:3 width changes, and now and then some artifacts appear at 5 min to 12, and now and then I see a movie image.

After a long time I stopped the recording (only a force through XP Task Manager would work) and viewed the tape - and it resembled what I saw while it was recording.

I am running a 1gb P4 3.2ghz, 2 ide and the input movie is on the 2nd adapter. I am running with the 'movie editing' options which were recommended and nothing else is running. XP is at the SP2 and has been stable - as much as XP can.

I have a NEC Firewire card and a JVC GR-D850U. My wife has only used up 5 tapes so far, so the machine is in excellent shape. The recording tapes are brand new, they have been initialized.

I am running the camera on DC power source - and I am running out of juice myself.

Can you point me in a direction that might lead somewhere?

Oh, yes, WinDv produces the same symptoms.

How does one eliminate firewire cable or firewire card? Hard to suspect them, as they were used to read the original input - which now modified - I am trying to write out.

Thanks, cheers and all that,

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:51 am

I am not sure what to suggest. It has been a verrry long time since I have exported SD DV back to camera (I just checked my last post on that particular subject, and it was in 2006!!

But I don't recall anyone posting a problem with that particular operation in VS11/11.5+ or X2 for that matter. I also did a quick search and could find nothing on the subject relating to either of them... apart from your own!

Just to be sure, I dug out my 'old' (3 years) Canon MV960 mini DV camera and hooked it up. Loaded a DV video and went through the export to camera process with both X2 and VS 11.5+. Same as you, put camera in PLAY, Share > DV Recording and with the DV clip highlighted in the library (which is where I assume you had it... not in the timeline). The little monitor window comes up, with the line-up option > Next > Red Light button the only option. Click that. Started the tape in the camera rolling. Got a message on the monitor to the effect 'Video is sent to camera", and indeed the video started appearing in the camera's screen and went right to the end, with no problem. And played back with no problem.

All I can think to ask is whether you have patched whichever version of VS 11 you have (VS 11, 11+ or 11.5+). As I say, mine was 11.5+ fully patched, though again I can't recall anyone reporting any problem with this function in that program even before the patches appeared.

I also doubt very much, like you, that it is either your firewire card or cable since they obviously work for import from the camera. The only other reported problem with this function in the past turned out to be with European mini-DV cameras which had had their DV-In function disabled for local taxation reasons (as opposed to DV-Out for capture by a computer). But yours is obviously US/NTSC so I doubt that this is the problem either...

If you have a friend who has a computer with firewire, you might want to test it there...

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:14 pm

...Or a friend with a MiniDV cam, so you can also test it with your system.

Gentamicinman · Post by **Gentamicinman** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:29 am

Ken and Jeff -
Again, thanks for the time and interest. It is deeply appreciated.

Digging up an old camera and going through the steps is certainly a high level support and most unusual these days. Thank you.

My VS11 reports it is:

11.5.0157.1+

I tried to find anything related to that on the update packs page and I have to scratch my head. Because I have Power Pack 1 I think I am current, other than the Hot Fix 01 - which I

I am at a loss and it may be time to try another camera.

Thanks again,
Dave

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:58 pm

The version number should end in '2'... The fact your's does not indicates you have not in fact installed the very first patch for VS 11. It is NOT the hot fix (which is only for the problem indicated in the blurb on it); not the Hot Pack (which gave you the '5'), but the very first patch at the bottom of the list.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:52 pm

I would try to eliminate teh cam/cable and pc firewire connection by doing tests with three items that you can see working, so find a friend with a pc/cable and cam that works when sending back to tape and gradually test all your three items by a process of swapping out.

Your cam on his cable and pc. If it works then the cam is ok.
Swap the cable, does it work with his pc and your cam?
If yes, fine cable ok, if no, try his cam, as it could be the connection between cam and cable is poor.
Etc until you have tried every option and are sure that all items work.

Gentamicinman · Post by **Gentamicinman** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:52 am

Finally back to work on the miniDV output problem.

I jumped ahead of myself and bought a reconditioned Canon. It arrived today.

After figuring out a confusing setup I tried it and got the same result. Not Good.

I swapped cables and same result. Not Good at All.

THEN I swallowed my pride and used my wife's system.

Both cameras worked fine. I could have saved a few bucks and answered my question sooner, had I tried hers. But since my gigabyte files were on my system, I didn't even think to try.

Now - I "think" my problem is at the card level. Her VIA chipset 1394 card works and my NEC doesn't. It could be software - but that's seems unlikely to me.

Is that a reasonable assumption?

I'd swap cards, but right not my 'technical skills' don't impress her, and discretion might be the better part of valor - for the time being.

I'll post again - when and if I make progress, and I am sure I will.

Thanks again for the help and support.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:09 am

Well, at least you isolated the problem. And it could indeed be the card. First, though, if you are confident enough to open the computer case, just jiggle the card a little to see if it has somehow worked itself loose. Then press it firmly back into the slot on the motherboard.

And if that doesn't do anything, just go out and buy a new firewire card. They are very cheap these days -- around A$20 (US$17) here. And they are very easy to fit. You just have to undo the screw that holds the card in place on the inside back of the case and then gently but firmly pull the old one out. Do it in reverse to insert the new one.

Gentamicinman · Post by **Gentamicinman** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:16 am

Ken -
I have reached the end of this old rope.

A new VIA chipset firewire card arrived today, mf'd by TRENDnet

I put it in a different PCI slot, I removed the old one, I used the MOBO jumper to reset the BIOS and I still get the exact same error which I started with some days ago.

I am running a SOYO P4VTE mobo with a p4 processor - the board is fast, but old, and I might be tempted to swap it out.

Before I do that I'll use my USB IDE attachment, transfer the AVI files to a HD, move that HD to my wife's system (via USB) and burn the tapes there. That's really all I wanted to do in the first place.

Nothing is more fun than a computer which works, nothing is more frustrating than one which doesn't work.

I appreciate your support and if or when I ever resolve this I will let you know.

Thanks again,
Dave