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I have downloaded the trial version of VideoStudio Pro X2 for use with my Samsung HMX-H100 HD camcorder. But I can't open files produced by the camcorder in VS. When I try, I get:

Unable to Open File
File Format Mismatch

The files are .MP4 and are H264 either 1920x1080/60i or 1280x720/30p.

Any tips?

You should be able to open those files as they are, as far as I am aware, AVCHD -- and the trial version should allow that as well. How exactly are you trying to open them?

Please note, though, that your computer will not be able to play them smoothly. AVCHD is the most demanding of all video formats, and you need at least a Core 2 Duo processor be able to play it smoothly. If your P4 has hyperthreading, then it should be able to edit AVCHD using SmartProxy, but I repeat, even if it can do so, you won't be able to play it smoothly... Believe me, I know since the first computer on which I tried to play and edit AVCHD was on my old P4 3.0 GHz with HT... I could edit it, though slowly, but it played back all jerky so I thought I had not successfully edited it. But when I put the edited clip in a then new Core 2 Duo laptop, the edited file played beautifully. Corel also states that a Core 2 Duo is the minimum required for playback of AVCHD...

EDIT: on looking more closely at the Samsung press release from January this year relating to your camera, and the one or two other reviews I could find, I note that all of them used much the same formula you did in describing the output from the camera i.e. H.264 MP4. But no one, including Samsung, actually described its output as AVCHD, just HD (though at the highest frame format size 1920 x 1080i). So I am wondering if Samsung may have used some of their own technology.

Assuming that you have transferred the contents of the SD card to your computer hard disk, what extension appears on the files? Normally, AVCHD files would have the extension .m2ts or .mts (transport stream mpeg-4).

Did the camera come with an installation disk of any kind? And have you installed whatever was on it? I ask because it is possible Samsung may their own version of the H.264 codec. Certainly, for instance, both Sony and Panasonic (and for all I know Canon) have their own variants of AVCHD... And JVC has a hybrid camera which produces its own version of H.264 MP4 which uses the .tod extension... That's another of the problems with the format -- all the major camera manufacturers have not yet settled down on fixed properties for the format.

Nospampls wrote: But I can't open files produced by the camcorder in VS. When I try, I get:
Unable to Open File
File Format Mismatch

In VS when you get to Insert Media File to timeline or library have you tried both "Insert Video" and "Insert Digital Media".
I ask this as a friend of mine has a Samsung and he had the same problem but I can't remember which option worked though I think Ken's advice is probably your best bet.

Ken,

Thank you for taking the time to provide a detailed response.

My processor is HT -- sounds identical to your old one. I understand what you are saying about performance, and I'm OK with that. What I want to do is find some video editing software that meets my needs and is compatible with my camcorder, then I can upgrade my computer accordingly.

I admit to being a novice in this technology. Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC I draw the conclusion that H.264 and AVCHD are standards from different groups, but should be identical in practical terms. Here's a quote:

"The ITU-T H.264 standard and the ISO/IEC MPEG-4 AVC standard (formally, ISO/IEC 14496-10) are jointly maintained so that they have identical technical content."

That article refers to this technology as "H.264/AVC/MPEG-4", so again it seems like the standards are identical.

What I'm trying to do here is see if we can rule out the standard as the cause of my problem.

The extension is .MP4. When connecting the camcorder to the pc via USB, the camcorder appears as if I'm looking at an SD card in a reader, and each video segment/recording is a single MP4 file. Same when I copy that to my hard drive, of course. The only recording medium in the camcorder is an SDHC card, so it makes no difference whether I use the camcorder or an external reader.

I can 'play' the MP4 with several players -- WMP, QuickTime, VLC, etc., but of course it is not smooth due to my processor speed.

There is no required software to install. However, Samsung provides a video editing program embedded in the camcorder, to be run on the PC. I think it's optional as to whether you run it from the camcorder on the PC, or install to the PC. I did the latter.

As expected, the program is very basic. I can trim the beginning or ending off a clip, but cannot figure out how to split or divide a clip, a serious limitation.

Worse, if I merely open a clip recorded by the camcorder and output it in a camcorder-compatible format identical to the input in terms of resolution and quality, the resulting MP4 is completely unacceptable. It can be copied back to the camcorder and played, but at a huge loss in quality. Completely unacceptable.

FWIW, a competitive product (whose initials are PS) can open and edit a lower res file (720p) correctly. However, it has trouble with the 1080i file. I identifies it has being 15fps when it's really 60i and every other frame on the timeline is identical. I.E. frame n=n+1, n+2=n+3, etc. Thus I seem to have only every other frame. That's the reason I went 'shopping' and downloaded the trial version of VS.

Which reminds me, it won't accept the update I saw you note in another post, probably because it's a trial version.

I wonder if you'd be so kind as to look at my files with the latest version? HDV_2000.MP4 is 1080i and HDV_2001.MP4 is 720p. Both are at http://drop.io/samsung_test

Based on all this info, any other suggestions?

John,

Thanks for your suggestions.

"Insert Video" gets the format problem I first mentioned. "Insert Digital Media" prompts me for a folder and apparently is looking for a DVD or a Video_TS folder to open. The 'OK' button is grayed out if I select the camcorder "drive" or any of its subfolders, or the SDHC 'drive' or its subfolders.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
--rolfe.

What I'm trying to do here is see if we can rule out the standard as the cause of my problem.

It has something to do with the file or file format. I don't know if we should blame Samsung, Corel, or both...

Some files just cause trouble... The more-compressed formats (MP4 WMA, MOV, DivX, etc.) are the most trouble-prone. Frequently, we'll just get some weird problem without any kind of warning or error message.

The MP4 files from some cameras seem to work and MP4 files from other cameras don't. The AVCHD files from some cameras seem to work and files from other cameras don't, etc.

Again, I don't know if the files are non-compliant to the standards or if the standards allow too many variations, or if Video Studio can't handle all of the valid variations... or what. Frequenty, you can play a "problem file" just fine, and maybe even load it into Video Studio and preview it, but then it causes trouble when you try to edit or convert it.

FWIW, a competitive product (whose initials are PS) can open and edit a lower res file (720p) correctly. However, it has trouble with the 1080i file.... That's the reason I went 'shopping' and downloaded the trial version of VS... Which reminds me, it won't accept the update I saw you note in another post, probably because it's a trial version.

If you can't get the trial to work, I wouldn't buy Video Studio just hoping that the updates will make it work! I think you should "keep shopping". I seem to remember somebody who was having trouble with AVCHD reported good results with Sony Vegas, so that may be worth a try.

Well, that was interesting! I downloaded both files and have been playing around with them for the past hour or so, with not much to report from it that is positive, I am afraid.

Both files return the 'File format mismatch' error message in X2 Ultimate. And I couldn't get anything to play them both smoothly. VLC played them but very jerkily -- although it did actually play the 720p file smoothly, and with audio, but only once. But Nero ShowTime, PowerDVD 9 and WinDVD9 with BluRay (all of which happily play HDV and AVCHD, all played them jerkily, and consistently so.

As for editing programs, apart from VS, they could all "see" the files in their folder (like VS), but none could open it. Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 actually returned a message saying either the format is unrecognised or the clip is faulty. Magix 14 just refused to load it. I would locate the file, click on open. And nothing would happen. Vegas Movie Studio 8 Platinum crashed each time I tried to open it, as did Womble and Video ReDo -- and the two latter are among the most 'forgiving' programs I have in regard especially to mpegs of all types.

GSpot told me the codec is avc1. And Googling that revealed that it is indeed a problematic codec and many, many people have total difficulty opening files using it. The VideoHelp forum (usually authoritative on most subjects) suggests using ffdshow and Haali Media Splitter. But I don't have either of these and really can't spend much more time on it. In any case, there was no suggestion how to get it to play in a video editing program.

There was a suggestion that the avc1 codec is a repackaged version of the codec used in QuickTime .mov. So I tried playing it in my QuickTime Pro player (which also allows conversion to something else). But I got a green screen and could not convert it to anything which showed the video. In desperation, I also tried my DivX 7 (Pro) player which can also deal with most mp4 HD footage (especially since DivX itself has only recently produced its own new HD 1920 x 1080i codec). But that also gave me a green screen.

Finally, I tried converting it in SUPER, first to another version of mp4 but using similar properties; and then to HDV format mpeg-2. Both efforts failed with a red ERROR!! reading, but no further explanation...

So I am afraid, I give up!

Thanks, Ken and DVDDoug for your suggestions, and especially Ken for investing so much time.

Because Ken had so much trouble, I downloaded the 2 files to make sure they didn't get corrupted somewhere in the uploading/storing process. Both files "play" in Quick Time (not Pro) and WMP, albeit with jerkiness and in the case of WMP, some yellow color splotches. So I think the files are OK.

This is disappointing. I love the camcorder for many reasons, but not being able to edit my stuff is a big problem.

Thanks to Ken's testing, there are many things I don't need to try myself.

--rolfe.

I forgot to mention that I also tried it with WMP but that could not even "see' the file listed in the folder, so obviously couldn't play it. Strange that your WMP doesn't have the same problem ... or should I say "even stranger"!!!

I have just downloaded the two files. Before purchasing VS x2Pro I was using AVS software.
The file HDV_2000.MP4 plays in AVS Video Player but is very pixelated and jerky. It's so bad you can hardly recognise the subject matter.
The file HDV_2001.MP4 on the other hand plays perfectly including the audio! I imported both files to AVS Video Editor 4.1 and the results in the preview screen were the same as the player, file 2000 no good, file 2001 perfect.
I rendered the 2000 to an avi file and in all my players the result was the same - rubbish.
I then tried a few editing tasks on the 2001 file including deleting a small section of the clip, inserting a transition and applying a few effects. All worked well without a hitch. I then burnt the resultant project to a DVD-R and that plays well on my PC and my standard TV. (I'm in the UK so I use the PAL system.)

The difference between the two files is shown on the two screenshots below.

http://www.jmwebsites.co.uk/2001.jpg
http://www.jmwebsites.co.uk/2000.jpg

Had another look at this. AVS have a Video Converter and I have convered your 2001 file to a couple of different formats. I'm guessing you are in NTSC country, if so what appears to be good is MPEG-2. I can then import this in Corel Video Studio Pro x2 with no problems.

John,

This is all very interesting and helpful. I wasn't aware of AVS software.

Last night I downloaded Cyberlink PowerDirector's free trial version. It appears to work on BOTH my file formats. I intend to play around with it some more to see if I can find any serious limitations and may purchase it -- it's reasonably priced.

I intend also to check out AVS which I see also offers a free trial and is reasonably priced. It may be that I can live with the 720p resolution for now.

Yes, I'm in NTSC land -- US. So it's interesting that even converting to PAL worked for you.

I don't currently have a Blu-ray burner in the PC, nor a Blu-ray player for my HDTV, but I'm sure both are in my future to take advantage of both the camcorder's and TV's capabilities.

Meantime, what would really be nice is the ability to edit video from the camcorder and write the result back to the SDHC card and play it thru the camcorder to the TV. Thus I could archive these HD movies and copy them to the SDHC as needed for playback. All without the need for Blu-ray.

Unfortunately, I've not succeeded in this. The Samsung camcorder seems too fussy about the format. I noticed that the native audio is AAC but PowerDirector produces a file with Dolby only, so this might be the compatibility issue. Perhaps AVS would have a few more options and I could create a compatible file.

Since you previously used AVS, I assume that you like VS better. When you converted my file to MPEG-2 for input into VS, does the quality suffer (ie, is there "loss")?

Thank you for all your work and ideas! So far I really like the camcorder and now need to figure out what editing software will work the best for me.

--rolfe.

Don't think there was much loss of quality. You can download the file from the link below.
I now use the VS software instead of the AVS as it has many more features and generally seems more robust. That's just my opinion, of course.

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=d8hm264dgtf

John,

I downloaded the mp2. It looks good -- plays well in WMP whereas the original MP4 plays unacceptably. Nice to have this option and I would never have discovered it myself.

I'm looking forward to more experimenting when I return from a few days' trip.

I also was not aware of gigasize -- nice tool. I have used drop.io but its free limit is 100MB not 300MB.

Thanks,

--rolfe.