Quality of finished project put on dvd not very good

mitacal · Post by **mitacal** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:02 am

The dvd I made from my project in video studio 12 is not very clear and sharp. When I play the original video from the mini dv tape in my camcorder hooked to the same tv (720 p HD) that I watched the dvd on, it looks great. The dvd player used is a Sony that upscales.

Could someone tell me what I did wrong.

I started out with video ( 29 minutes ) from a Canon digital camcorder recorded in wide screen high quality and captured with windows movie maker in DV-AVI ( the properties of this says type 1 ). I imported this video to the library and started a new project, then put it in the timeline. I only put one title in front of the video, that's it, no other editing was done.

I then went to file>project properties>edit>compression tab and moved the slider to 100% quality and changed the video data rate to constant 8000 kbps, I kept the audio at LPCM, media type NTSC DVD, frame rate 29.97 frames/second, frame type lower field first, frame size standard 720 x 480, aspect ratio 16:9. Now that I think about it, I can't remember if I did this before I put the video in the timeline or after, I think I did it before. I want the dvd to be the best quality it can be.

I then... saved as VSP

Then I started a new project and did all that up there again ( do I need to do this again? ) then I put this VSP in the timeline and went to share>create video file>DVD NTSC 16:9, that was the first render, right? Then, after that was done, I started a new project again and did all that up there again ( do I need to? ) Then went to share>create disc>DVD. From there, I didn't change any of the preferences or the templates. In the project settings I did all that up there again ( do I need to? ) and I kept the do not convert compliant mpeg files box checked. I kept the aspect ratio at 16:9 and field type at lower field first. I unchecked the menues box.

I am using Sony Dvd+R to burn to.

I slowed the burn speed down to 4x.

Somewhere in the forum I read something about stopping processes from running in the back ground to help with quality. Should I do this, if so, how?

I have a lot of videos that are under one hour each and want to do this with all of them. These are family videos that I just want to be able to put a dvd of them in a dvd player and watch in great quality.

Thanks in advance, Brad

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:56 am

Hi

Read my guide here, it works for me.

http://uk.geocities.com/trevor.andrew@b ... de_avi.htm

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:40 pm

Apart from reading Trevor's guide, I see a couple of initial problems. First, you obviously have a high definition camera which films video using 1280 x 720p as the frame format -- that is the smallest high definition frame size. But we don't know the exact model of Canon camera you used, so we don't know if it is AVCHD (most likely) or HDV. Please right click on one of the captured clips inside VS (either in the timeline or library pane) and copy ALL its properties here please.

Next, you captured it in DV Type 1 format. That's fine, but depending on the camera, the original video was either in mpeg-4 (AVCHD) format using Upper Field First, or else mpeg-2 (HDV) format, also using Upper Field First. DV, of course, uses Lower Field First.

Anyway, again depending on your camera, normally to capture High Definition video in standard definition quality, you have to change a setting in the camera, and in effect have the camera down-convert to standard definition. HDV cameras (I have the Canon HV20) can down-convert in the camera itself from HDV (mpeg-2) to DV. I am not sure that AVCHD cameras can do that.

Next, if you captured direct from the high def format in the camera but used VS to do the conversion, I am not sure you would have necessarily gotten the right format. You should have, but it is not guaranteed. Again, right click on one of the DV files and copy all its properties here, please.

But anyway, again depending on the camera, you have gone from either highly compressed high def mpeg-4 or somewhat less compressed but still high def mpeg-2, to much less compressed (but normally stable) DV. Whatever the case, you have gone from high def to standard def. Now your camera -- depending on the model -- probably uses a bitrate of, say, VBR max 15 or 18 Mbps (or if HDV, CBR at 25 Mbps). And you have reduced it to a SD bitrate of 8000. That is reducing its potential quality by around half or more. In other words, by its very nature, standard def video will never look as good as high def video (presuming the filming of the latter was OK).

Next, you are editing in DV format -- for standard defintion, it could not be in a better format for editing, but again, we have to remember that it started life as much better quality HD video. Then, when you finish editing, you started off trying to do some sort of conversion. But from the information you provide, I am not clear exactly what you did. First, you obviously thought you would convert it to DVD compatible mpeg-2 (a conversion which by its very nature will cause a loss of quality, given that mpeg-2 is inherently lossy and uses different algorithms to DV). Not much loss, but a little -- and that's on top of your down-conversion from HD to SD in the first place.

Next, though, you muddle my thinking by saying you set things for a DVD/mpeg-2 conversion, but saved it as ... a VSP file. Well, I am afraid a VSP file (Video Studio Project) is not a video format. It is only a small text file, saying what is in a project, where it is stored, and what has been done to it. So if you only saved it as that, you have in fact not converted anything.

This is where you absolutely HAVE to read Trevor's notes. You say you then started up a new project (right) and put the VSP in the timeline and rendered it to a DVD file. Wrong. You only needed to do this the first time - i.e. produce the new mpeg-2. Then you close the project and start a new one. But you don't do anything then. The simple objective is to clear the timeline of the original VSP file. You certainly do NOT do the whole thing over again a third time (involving a second conversion and thus another generation of lost quality).

In other words, to keep things simple, you do your edits, you go Share > Create Video File > DVD, and produce your new DVD compatible mpeg-2. You save that project. Then you start a new project to clear the timeline of everything. Don't give it a name, don't do anything else with it, DO NOT reinsert the original project VSP file. Just simply go straight to Share > Create Disc > DVD. The burning module should open absolutely and totally empty. That was the objective of starting the new project so that it would empty the timeline in the Editing Module, and keep it empty in the burning module.

Then, in the burning timeline, you manually insert your new DVD-compatible mpeg-2, and NOT the VSP file. You build your menus, and if the 'do not convert' box is ticked as you say it is, you burn the disc, thus saving at least a couple of generations of lost quality from the way you have been doing it.

The slow burn speed is good!

Do you by any chance have a Sony PlayStation 3? Or a Blu-Ray player? If so, you can preserve the original high definition quality and burn what is called an AVCHD hybrid disc on a standard def DVD. The quality is fantastic. As it is, you have started life with high definition, downgraded it to standard definition, and then degraded it still further with a couple of generations at least of quality loss through unnecessary conversions.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:13 pm

Hi Ken

I took the reference to 720p to be the type of TV, not the type of camcorder.

The reference to Dv-Avi and Type-1 seems to indicate a standard Mini-Dv camcorder.

I think we need some clarification from Brad on this one.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:01 pm

I thought the same as Trevor

mitacal · Post by **mitacal** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:17 pm

Thanks Trevor and Ken

I'm sorry for the confussion. The TV is a 32" Sanyo 720p HD, but not widescreen . I have three other TV's - one a 32" widescreen Sanyo 720p LCD HD flat screen - and one a 32" widescreen LG 720p LCD HD flat screen - and one a Toshiba 15" standard. The project does not look good on any of them.

The camera is a Canon Optura 60 NTSC digital video camcorder mini dv 280x digital zoom 14x optical zoom ( not HD )

I do not have a Sony PlayStation 3 or a Blu-Ray player. I have an Xbox 360.

The properties of a captured video with WMM in DV-AVI are:
File
File format: Microsoft Avi files -- OpenDML
File size: 6,055,711 KB
Frame rate: 29.970 frames/sec
Duration: 1719.486 seconds
Data rate: 2564.28 kbps

Video
Compression: DV Video Encoder -- type 1
Attributes: 24 bits, 720x480, 16:9
Total frames: 51,533 frame(s)

Audio
Compression: DV Audio -- NTSC
Attributes: 32.000 kHz, 12 Bit, Stereo
Total samples: 55,023,556 samples

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:09 pm

Hi

I¡¦m from Pal country but see nothing wrong with your captured files.
One comment, the Audio is set in the camera as 32KHz, you can change this to 48 KHz, for future recordings. Not a problem for your editing.

I assume you captured to Dv using Firewire (I-Link), can please you confirm this.
Why don¡¦t you use VS to capture your video.?

Project/video settings can be a little daunting, as you have Mini ¡V Dv, a digital source which video studio prefers, you¡¦re on to a good start. There¡¦s little to change as VS will do it for you. A little experience and you¡¦ll be flying.

Read my guide to AVI again.

Basically you should
Capture to DV-Avi.................you do that
Edit the project
Share Create a Video File¡XDVD ¡V Ntsc
Burn a disc using the new file.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:36 pm

Well, silly me!!

But at least my advice regarding far too many conversions remains valid!!

mitacal · Post by **mitacal** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:04 am

Trevor, I do capture with a firewire.
Windows Movie Maker lets me name my file before I capture. I am just used to it. Should I use VS?

What is the difference between the 32 KHz and the 48 KHz audio in my camera? Which one is better quality?

Thanks Trevor and Ken and Skier-hughes.
This is great!!!!
Brad

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:06 am

16bit 48khz is better, the 12bit 32khz allows a free track so that you can add some extra audio onto the tape using the built in microphone of the camcorder or an external one, if you wanted to add some extra commentary after the recording had been done.

This shouldn't affect video quality though.

I note you say lower field first for your mpeg, this should be upper field first.
But then all your tv's are progressive, so do not show an interlaced picture.
I'd start by changing that field order first then make another dvd and see what the result is.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:18 am

Hi

Most camcorders allow us to edit the recordings in the camera.
I don¡¦t think any of us use these options as we have Video Editors to do the job.

Part of the audio channel is left spare to allow for audio dubbing.
Changing to 48 Khz will use the full channel.
I doubt if you will hear any quality difference, but as its there you may as well use it.

Your Camera manual will have reference to this.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:22 am

Hi Graham

Just a note on Field Order.

The source video is Digital Video (DV) and will use Lower Field order

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:42 am

But when making the mpeg2 for the dvd the field order will change to upper field first......... Or at least that is always the way I make mine.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:02 pm

Hi

No ........... the field order is determined by the source video.

In general if its a analogue capture, VHS, TV, etc then Upper Field is the norm.
For Digital Capture and I mean DV then Lower Field is always used.

It was easy in the old days...........
The introduction of High Definition broke the rule and being digital would have fallen into the lower bracket, but as we know most if not all HD is Upper Field.

The OP¡¦s camcorder is a Mini DV type camcorder recording Dv-Avi onto Mini DV Tape. (lower Field)
When you capture via firewire to DV the footage is copied/transferred to the pc, no re-coding takes place. What you have on the camera is what you get on the pc, no changes DV-Avi.

Whatever order you start with should be maintained throughout, unless you use Frame Based for internet viewing.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:49 pm

Well I make 1,000's of dvds every week and that's how I make them, using dv.avi from mini dv and many other sources, pictures, cine, vhs, betamax, dvd etc and converting to mpeg2 using canopus procoder. I send them round the world and have no trouble whatsoever.