4:3 clip in a 16:9 project

RickMen · Post by **RickMen** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:23 am

I have read over & over Trevor Andrew's very helpful website on 4:3 & 16:9 clips but I must be missing something, I'm still unclear as to what happens to a 4:3 clip within a 16:9 project once the project is converted to a 16:9 movie? then onto DVD? Does the 4:3 clip get stretched or does it retain its orginal ratio and you get the black bars on each side?

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:01 am

Hi

First of all when we edit in Video Studio the original files are unchanged, the files on the timeline are merely a virtual clip a thumbnail representing the source files on the hard drive.
When we have completed editing we create a new file from the project by using Share ¡V Create Video File.

OK
When you stretch the 4:3 video into a 16:9 size some of the top and bottom are lost, but you keep the aspect ratio, the frame is in proportion.

Using Project Playback--What you see in the preview window is what you get on disc. A new mpeg 2 file is rendered from the project.
The new Mpeg 2 file being used to burn a DVD.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:20 pm

From Videomaker Magazine:

How to convert 4:3 video for viewing in 16:9 widescreen format.

Well, there are basically three ways to do it: pillars, stretching and zooming.

Pillars - This method places the 4:3 footage in the middle of the 16:9 frame, flanking it on both sides with black vertical columns or pillars, hence the name. Thus, you do not alter the original footage in any way, so it is, in effect "pure," which is a good thing. However, many people find the black pillars distracting.

Stretching - In this method, the 4:3 image is stretched horizontally, to make full use of the 16:9 screen area. This is the most popular method with widescreen TV owners for watching traditional 4:3 television programs. Sometimes it works well; other times it causes a lot of distortion, and it almost always makes people look fat.

Zooming - This third method simply magnifies the 4:3 image to fill the wide screen, but it keeps the aspect ratio in correct proportion. The downside is that it crops the image as a result of the zoom, so you're not seeing everything that's in the original frame. Most film transfers pan around on the image so the most active part of the picture appears on the transfer.

So, as you can see from these descriptions there really isn't any perfect way to convert 4:3 into 16:9, but, if you're shooting in 16:9 format to begin with, you shouldn't have any problems at all.

What Trevor describes is the Zooming method.

RickMen · Post by **RickMen** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:05 am

Thanks Black Lab & trevor.

Another issue I have is that I will need to mix my TOD (HD) clips (16:9 with upper field frame) with DV AVI clips (4:3 lower field frame). I read elsewhere on this forum (I think it was by Ken) that mixing UFF & LFF was a no no! Unfortunately I have a extensive collection of DV AVI clips and I'm now starting to build up a collection of TOD clips, from time to time I like to create DVDs that summarise major family events hence I will have to combine DV AVI & TOD clips. What's the best way to go about doing this? Any suggestions?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:17 am

As far as it is possible to do so, I would try to make separate projects out of the different formats. There is no difficulty in burning video which uses different field orders to the one DVD. It is just when you mix them in the one project that problems arise. The jaggies which are the usual give-away of mixed field orders are also most noticeable when there are straight vertical lines and fast motion. So you could probably mix a little of the two field orders if your videos don't have much of either of those.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:21 am

Hi
Ken, is it possible to render the mixed interlaced project to Frame Based eliminating interlacing.

Rickman indicates using HD video and I assume he has a TV to play HD.
If so then Frame Based may be the way.

Just a thought

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:47 pm

It sounds like a possible alternative -- though I have never tried it.

RickMen · Post by **RickMen** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:36 pm

Ken - so if I have 1 project/movie with UFF and the other project/movie with UFF when I burn them both to a DVD which field order do I seelct for the DVD? or is Trevor suggesting to use frame based for the DVD?

RickMen · Post by **RickMen** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:38 pm

CORRECTION - Ken - so if I have 1 project/movie with UFF and the other project/movie with LFF when I burn them both to a DVD which field order do I seelct for the DVD? or is Trevor suggesting to use frame based for the DVD?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:45 am

First, yes, that would seem to be the effect of Trevor's suggestion. It also assumes that you would be mixing video with different field orders in a single project.

However, if you follow our recommended workflow, and follow my suggestion about having different projects for different field order material, you don't ever need to set a field order in the burning process. Our recommended workflow is to edit a project and then produce a new video of that project, before you ever go into the burning module. In other words, if you have a project using UFF, you convert that project into a final UFF file in the Editor (Share > Create Video File > DVD). Ditto with a project in LFF.

Then you open the burning module (Share > Create Disc > DVD), and you insert the UFF and LFF videos in the burning timeline. Now, if they are DVD compliant, which both of them are because that is what you produced in the Editor, and the 'do not convert compliant mpeg files' box in the cogwheel Options icon in the bottom left of the burning screen is ticked, then VS will simply burn the two videos as they are, UFF and LFF!

They will not be converted because they are both already fully compliant with DVD standards.

RickMen · Post by **RickMen** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:56 am

um.. that's interesting. I always thought the the 'do not convert compliant mpeg file' box meant that the movie was not re-rendered only if it's properties matched the properties in the dialog box in the Disc Manager section (I'm not in front of my VS at the moment so I'm trying to recall from memory).

Clevo · Post by **Clevo** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:14 am

trevor andrew wrote:Hi
Ken, is it possible to render the mixed interlaced project to Frame Based eliminating interlacing.

Just a thought

I have tried this and it works.... the DVD players I have tested this on have been very modern players so I can't be certain how this works on older players

RickMen · Post by **RickMen** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:22 am

So Clevo, what I'm reading is that where a project has mixed UFF & LFF clips then the framed based option is the way to go in the render process.

Does this eliminate the jaggies?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:24 am

I always thought the the 'do not convert compliant mpeg file' box meant that the movie was not re-rendered only if it's properties matched the properties in the dialog box in the Disc Manager section

No, that is not the case. If the video complies with the range of properties which fit within the international DVD standard, and the box is ticked, it will not be converted, regardless of what is in that big properties box above it.

The latter box is there as a back up in a sense. If the 'do not convert' box is NOT ticked, then rendering will occur using the properties in the top box. But you can also convert those properties if you want. The properties that are there are only default properties, but they can be Edited.

RickMen · Post by **RickMen** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:33 am

Thanks Ken.

This is a great forum, I'd wish I had found this forum a few years ago, it would have saved my allot of trouble!!