New Info re: AVCHD transition "blips"

[philip_l]

Hi

As transition blips are fixed in 3, are we going to get the fix to use in 2?

I'd pretty disgusted if they don't back port the fix as I've not long had 2.

Regards

Phil

[philip_l]

Hi

After some testing it seems:

Blips are not completely resolved in X3.

The resulting SmartRendered AVCHD file when I attempted to convert to DVD MPEG2 had all sorts of strange artefacts around the transition points.

It seems to work better, but I was able to get a pause and an occasional odd coloured frame when playing back a SmartRendered AVCHD file with a crossfade and hardware decoding turned off in VideoStudio.

It seems a SmartRendered AVCHD file is still broken in some way, but now it can be covered up better by the decoder, perhaps that is how it is designed to work, a bit of a hack to the file and hope for the best.

I wouldn't recommend using a SmartRendered AVCHD file as a master. It may still be a good idea to convert the AVCHD to some other better behaved format.

I've seen nothing better in X3, and the DVD encoding seems to be much worse.

Regards

Phil

[Ken Berry]

And I have been suggesting for more than a year now that people not use SmartRender with AVCHD or for that matter HDV. It takes much longer, granted, but but I personally get no artifacts or blips that way... Yes, I know it should work, but it does not seem to, regardless of what we say to Corel...

[RickMen]

I've been following this with interest but I'm still a not clear if the blip issue has been fixed in X3. Can the situation be summarised as follows:

a) if Smartrender in X3 is ON then still have a blip issue
b) if Smartrender in X3 is OFF then NO blip issue ?????

please confirm or clarify.

[Ken Berry]

All I can say is that with the Beta version, I tested it pretty thoroughly using AVCHD from different cameras. I made up projects with different transitions, and rendered them without SmartRender and got no blips in any of them... I confess I did not try it with SmartRender because as I say I don't use it with AVCHD or HDV...

[philip_l]

Hi

I've been following this with interest but I'm still a not clear if the blip issue has been fixed in X3. Can the situation be summarised as follows:

a) if Smartrender in X3 is ON then still have a blip issue
b) if Smartrender in X3 is OFF then NO blip issue ?????

please confirm or clarify.

If SmartRender is off then there was no blip issue on X2, and X3 is the same.

The blip issue is better with SmartRender On with X3, in most cases the transition is fine all but with a few 3D transistions the rendering that is applied isn't of a very high quality (compression artefacts).

The resulting AVCHD file isn't faultless when created with SmartRendering, for example if I turn hardware decoding off in VideoStudio there is a blip as the transition ends. Using the resulting AVCHD file to encode to DVD saw the result to be very messy.

Depending on how you use the SmartRendered output from X3 you will either have no issues or will get issues. I agree completely with Ken Berry and will add that I think SmartRender has never been more than a hack where AVCHD is concerned and so the resulting file is not perfect. With X3 Corel have been able to tidy up the hack somewhat to make it better.

I predict that as more people start using SmartRender again with X3 that more problems will surface.

Regards

Phil

[Ken Berry]

I am afraid that I have to agree with Phil. The problem is that without SmartRender, the rendering time is extremely long for AVCHD, even with powerful computers. I have a Quad 6600 (no longer top of the line, I admit), but I have a third party program which optimises the use of all 4 of my cores when Video Studio. But it can still take up to four times real time to render an AVCHD project.

In the interest of getting a faultless product from my project, however, it is a price that I am still willing to pay. I just go away and do something else, have a meal, read a book, watch TV... And come back to a clean output... But I am afraid that many (most?) users are unlikely to be as patient as I am when it comes to all aspects of video editing...

I should also add the rider that when I don't use SmartRender, I *do* however maintain the highest quality/bitrate settings for the rendering. Though inevitably, because of the lossy nature of all versions of mpeg, there will be some quality loss in the render, to my eyes, at least, I can detect no deterioration in quality in the rendered product without using SmartRender...

[Xyzzy2]

If SmartRender is off then there was no blip issue on X2, and X3 is the same.
[/quote]

Not true, in X2 when rendering AVCHD to MPEG-2 (what obviously disables SmartRender) the blips were present.

[dalemccl]

If SmartRender is off then there was no blip issue on X2, and X3 is the same.



Not true, in X2 when rendering AVCHD to MPEG-2 (what obviously disables SmartRender) the blips were present.

That has been my experience also. At the advice of someone here (Ken Berry, I think), I never used SmartRendering in X2 with AVCHD. But I always got transition blips when rendering AVCHD files or AVCHD hybrid discs from AVCHD clips. And also when rendering DVD files or DVD discs from AVCHD clips. (As a work-around I eventually stopped using transitions.)

[philip_l]

Hi

Not true, in X2 when rendering AVCHD to MPEG-2 (what obviously disables SmartRender) the blips were present.

Indeed there is, my mistake, I just discovered this problem after doing some more trying out with various versions yesterday.

I've seen two problems I think with X2:

1) Blips around transitions going from AVCHD to any format, so not related to SmartRendering, as there is no SmartRendering when converting to a different format.
2) When SmartRendering to an AVCHD file, the file has the blips, but is also not perfectly created, as the SmartRendered AVCHD file can have all sorts of strange issues when converted again to something else (may just be related to the particular format from the Panasonic SD9). For example sometimes after a transition the resulting video is covered with blocks like major drop outs.

With X3 1) is fixed, although in case 2) I still sometimes find the resulting AVCHD file becomes corrupt after a transition, not all the time, but quite often. This means SmartRendering out as AVCHD to get a master to then use to produce the formats required I can not do.

Additionally with X3, SmartRendering or no SmartRendering and creating out an AVCHD file, there is a noticeable reduction in picture quality during the transition, try a 3D transition with a complicated scene and the results are far worse than I would expect.

Just my findings.

Regards

Phil

[alpine]

I've just bought Magix Pro 15 plus to try. It has a different interface, but it seems to handle AVCHD transitions with no problems. It comes with the Mainconcept H264 codec which is very versatile and seems to allow for high bit rate output. Running it on my Q6600, it runs all 4 cores at around 80% when rendering.
It's another interface to learn, but then the VS11/12 was wierd at first!. And in the UK, it's half the price of the VS12 x upgrade!

[Van Rouge]

I also now use the magic program. I have given up with VS except for creating discs

[Black Lab]

Seems there may be a fix. Please read this related thread: http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?t=36884

[Van Rouge]

I have just made the suggestions that Phil Made

Quote
1) In Program Files\Common Files\Ulead Systems\MPEG took a copy of H264VDec.dll as a backup, this is the older version of the library (version 2.0.1.4)

2) Take a copy of the newer file from Program Files\Common Files\Ulead Systems\Filters\H264VDec.dll (this is version 2.0.1.7) and copy it into the folder in 1) replacing the older version there.

This resolved the drop-out issues.

Unquote

My newest file was 4.2.0.7 so I copied this over and tried a test using .mts camera files and crossfade transitions. I turned the 'smart render' option off and made a bluray file. I used the 'create disc' option to create an image file of a bluray disc and as the disc image was only a small file I burnt it onto a DVD as a data disc. This played Ok in the Sony bluray player and was a very acceptable movie with a steady pan and image.

This was the best movie I have been able to produce with VS X2 so I hope this has settled the problems I have experienced over the last six months. Many Thanks to Phil.

Ray Morris

[alpine]

Just tried this with smart render on, and the resulting avchd file sadly still shows the same fault.