New Info re: AVCHD transition "blips"

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:39 pm

Corel support has asked for our help in solving the problem of brief "blips" or "jerks" following transitions in video generated by VS X2 from AVCHD clips.

Background:

Last November, I reported to Corel the problem of brief "jerks" or "blips" in AVCHD video files or hybrid discs generated by VS Pro X2 from clips created by my Sony SR11. There was a long thread here in which several Canon users stated that they had the same problem. That thread is here: http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?t=33784

In addition to transitions, I also get the same blips in the video at the end of titles placed over the top of video. I am not sure whether Canon users have that problem.

Since the problem still has not been fixed, I followed up last week with Corel asking for the status of the fix for this problem. In their reply, they asked for more sample clips and asked that I post their ftp site URL where you can upload clips that will demonstrate the problem. They want clips from the various AVCHD camcorder models which are having this problem. They didn't say whether they want raw clips or VS-generated clips that contain the blip, but I suspect they want raw clips so they can try to re-create the problem on their systems.

When selecting a clip to upload, please keep in mind that what appears to cause the problem is that at the end of a transition or title, the video jumps back one frame and then proceeds forward again. Thus two frames are repeated, which causes the "blip". You can see this by viewing the generated file frame-by-frame.

So the blip is most apparent when there is obvious, but smooth, movement in the original clip. The raw clip I sent them when I reported the problem in November was of a truck driving down a highway, moving across the screen from left to right, and was shot on a tripod to eliminate any camcorder movement. In the VS-generated video, at the end of the transition, the truck jumped backwards slightly then went forward again.

A clip containing little or no movement, or a clip that is already jerky and unsteady, will not illustrate the problem well. So please select your clip accordingly. A single object moving across the screen against a non-moving background would be ideal.

Following is the ftp site where you can upload clips.

ftp://coreluser-u:Qlj76nR7@cfs.corel.co ... 090-Allan/

Please include the camera brand and model number in your file name. For example: >Sony SR11 sample clip.mts" . Please reply to this thread when you have uploaded clips so we know whether there has been a good response to Corel's request.

If I recall right from last November, I had to find and download a freeware ftp program in order to upload to their ftp site. I don't remember which ftp program I used. I'll look for one again and post a link to it later, but in the meantime if someone else knows of one, please post the link to it. Or if you know how to upload to an ftp site using a web browser, please post instructions.

Corel is willing to work with us on this problem, so let's help them (and ourselves) by providing clips. Thanks.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:23 pm

FileZilla FTP is a free, easy to use, ftp client software.

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:13 pm

Black Lab wrote:FileZilla FTP is a free, easy to use, ftp client software.

Thanks, Jeff

Przemek · Post by **Przemek** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:21 am

I cannot connect to the server and upload the files - any ideas or a step by step guide how to do it? I was trying to use Filezilla.
thanks

mitchell65 · Post by **mitchell65** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:37 am

Once you have an FTP program such as Filezilla installed, surely you need the host address, user name and password to get into Corels server. Then you can upload your clip files.

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:40 pm

mitchell65 wrote:Once you have an FTP program such as Filezilla installed, surely you need the host address, user name and password to get into Corels server. Then you can upload your clip files.

The host address is:

ftp://coreluser-u:Qlj76nR7@cfs.corel.co ... 090-Allan/

I didn't have to enter a user name and password when I uploaded last week, but my ftp program (WS_FTP) may have remembered them from when I uploaded to Corel's ftp site last November. It might be worth trying the i.d/pw. I used then. If that doesn't work, I will amend my problem report to Corel to ask them for the current i.d. and password. They may have forgotten to give it to me this time. This is the log in info they gave me in November:

User Name : coreluser-u
Password: Ngg96cX5

Przemek, as an alternative, if you can post your file(s) somewhere where I can download it (like one of the free web-based file hosting sites such as www.megaupload.com), I will download it and then upload it to Corel's ftp site.

mitchell65 · Post by **mitchell65** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:08 pm

Think they must have changed the password unless they issue one for each person as I can't log on with that u/n and password. I will contact Corel direct for new password etc

Przemek · Post by **Przemek** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:22 am

Przemek, as an alternative, if you can post your file(s) somewhere where I can download it (like one of the free web-based file hosting sites such as www.megaupload.com), I will download it and then upload it to Corel's ftp site.[/quote]

I've just uploaded the file to http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W26TUVNT so if you can pass it on to Corel I would be very grateful. I tried again to connect to their ftp server but no go...

thanks a lot

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:41 am

Przemek wrote:Przemek, as an alternative, if you can post your file(s) somewhere where I can download it (like one of the free web-based file hosting sites such as www.megaupload.com), I will download it and then upload it to Corel's ftp site.

I've just uploaded the file to http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W26TUVNT so if you can pass it on to Corel I would be very grateful. I tried again to connect to their ftp server but no go...

thanks a lot[/quote]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Przemek, I have downloaded your file and will upload to Corel's ftp server.

The file appears to be an avchd file created by X2 and I can see the jerks/blips when playing it. But I think they also want the raw clip that was used to create that video so that they can try to replicate the problem on their systems. Can you upload the raw AVCHD clip to megaupload too? Thanks.

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:23 am

Here is an e-mail I just got from Corel:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your e-mail and we really appreciate your cooperation. I read the topic that you have created in the forum site and it seems that some of the users couldn't upload their files to the FTP. Here's the username and password of the FTP site from where you are going to upload the sample videos:

ftp://coreluser-u:Qlj76nR7@cfs.corel.co ... 090-Allan/

User Name : coreluser-u
Password: Qlj76nR7

We will going to monitor the FTP from time to time and then download the collected sample videos for testing.

Meanwhile, I have forwarded this incident on to the Customer Support Services Manager within Corel. We appreciate you taking the time to share your insight as a customer and we look forward to improving our service to you in the future.

Regards,
Allan
Corel Customer Support Services
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who don't want to try the ftp route, if you upload to megaupload or other free web-based file-hosting site (Przemek uploaded to megaupload), and post a link to it here, I will be happy to download it and then ftp it to the Corel site. Please include a raw AVCHD clip that causes the problem, and optionally, an AVCHD file generated by X2 that has the transition blip in it.

And include the camcorder brand and model in the file names. Thanks.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:28 am

Thread made a sticky.

Przemek · Post by **Przemek** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:46 am

I've managed to upload the files - simply had no idea how to set the ClassicFTP (site properties) - just in case there are some users not familiar with it:
FTP server: cfs.corel.com
user name: coreluser-u
password: Qlj76nR7
remote directory when connected to: 090328-000090-Allan

Also, if there are any bigger samples needed, pls mention it in the thread.

Przemek · Post by **Przemek** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:42 pm

Hi again, I've read that Corel are watching the thread, so I've decided to include one more observation.
Sometimes, there is no 'blip' when two clips are joined, which is most possibly because they 'agree' in the frame sequence. I tried to cut one longer clip into 3 and then included the transitions and... no blips... So, it seems to me that it depends on the clips how they start and how end (how they are coded).
Anyway, I've uploaded two more files onto their server - one edited with blips and one (zip) with raw files. Hope it will help.

markg · Post by **markg** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:53 am

I'm currently running the trial version of VideoStudio X2 and have also been able to reproduce this problem when trying to edit footage from my new Canon HF200 camera.

To reproduce the problem, I took a single clip and cut part out of the middle so that there was panning both before and after the cut. What I found was that not only was there an obvious glitch shortly before the cut, but there was also a less obvious glitch after the cut:

The first glitch repeated 2 frames - i.e. it stepped back one frame before continuing.

The second glitch actually skipped 2 frames - causing the pan to jump.

To the human eye, the first glitch is more obvious because it goes backward - the second glitch is much less obvious because it's not much different to missing a bit when you blink.

From my experience as a programmer, it's pretty obvious to me that the glitch is being caused by the AVCHD rendering code seeking to an offset 2 frames prior to where it should be.

Of course, it could be something to do with the format of the AVCHD files that the Canon camera is producing that isn't fully compliant with the AVCHD specifications, but the fact that footage created with other brands of cameras also has the same problem would seem to indicate that this probably isn't the case. Regardless, it would be much easier for Corel to come out with a fix for VideoStudio to work around or fix this issue than to expect firmware updates for all the different camcorders that are creating these files.

I had pretty much decided on purchasing a copy of VideoStudio X2 until I found this problem. Unfortunately, for me, this is a complete show stopper, and I WILL NOT be purchasing a copy of VideoStudio until this bug has been fixed!

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:59 pm

Regardless, it would be much easier for Corel to come out with a fix for VideoStudio to work around or fix this issue than to expect firmware updates for all the different camcorders that are creating these files.

I had pretty much decided on purchasing a copy of VideoStudio X2 until I found this problem. Unfortunately, for me, this is a complete show stopper, and I WILL NOT be purchasing a copy of VideoStudio until this bug has been fixed!

Well, I am serious when I say I wish you luck! And believe me, this is not a put down. Please come back and let us know if you find an editing package which works with AVCHD apart from the software which comes with the camera.

I am by no means attempting to forgive Corel, but from looking at other software sites, and hearing the gripes of other AVCHD owners both here and elsewhere, the problem seems at least associated with the fact that the various camera manufacturers have still not worked out exactly what the international AVCHD standard is for them. Each of the main companies is still experimenting themselves, including with their own AVCHD codecs, and have software which works with *their* camera, but not with others. And worse, their software apparently is so simple it is not worth working with apart from the simplest things.

So I am afraid, at the moment, it seems that it is not just a matter of waiting for the software companies to catch up but for the hardware manufacturers to get their act together too.

Meanwhile, I am sticking pretty close to my HDV camera, which does not give me any grief at all compared to its AVCHD brethren!!!