Sony Camcorder not recognised over firewire

paul56 · Post by **paul56** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:57 pm

In between signing up for this board and being approved today, my problem does seem to have improved - I think! To comply with the 24 hour posting rule I will explain anyway. All the excellent tutorials on here persuaded me that I needed to go the avi/firewire route to achieve the best quality results. I don't seem to be alone in having my Sony D8 only occasionally being recognized over my new firewire Cardbus adapter as many forums are awash with fellow sufferers, albeit mostly from earlier versions of XP than my SP3.

Why is the firewire connection so unreliable? Once it¡¦s up and running, no problems and no frame loss using the brilliant WINDV. I realise the tape has to be running for the camera to be recognized - I know this because a blank section on the tape with no timecode cause the link to be lost as does stopping the tape. But very often, even using the method I know has worked and should work every time, the camera is not recognized (although today has been more successful for no apparent reason).

Interestingly, when I do have success WINDV reports the camera as a Microsoft DV camera and VCR whereas the Device Manager reports a Sony DV camcorder. Even more interesting, switching from player to camera mode brings the firewire connection up every single time.

Incidentally, the firewire card itself is rock solid with no errors ever appearing on Device Manger.

Any observations anybody?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:23 pm

That's curious. Usually Firewire is rock solid. I have used it consistently with a succession of mini DV and now HDV cameras on a variety of computers for about 8 years now, and never had any problems. My only thought is that your actual Firewire cable could be a bit wonky, since you are confident that your Firewire cardbus is reliable. Mind you, if as I assume, it is a PCMCIA card, it might not be seated correctly so that its connection might be occasionally a bit off.

I suggest the above hardware possibility since, if I read your post correctly, you suffer this problem both inside Video Studio, and also when not even using VS. That suggests a hardware problem to me, rather than a fault in VS. If you have or can borrow (or buy) another firewire cable, you could test this theory. Alternatively, if you have another computer, or a friend with a computer with a built-in firewire connection, you could temporarily load VS to see what happens with your camera on that computer.

FWIW, one of my camera collection is also a Sony Digital 8 (DCR-TRV480E), and like my other cameras, has never had any trouble with firewire, whether capturing directly from the camera, or when used as a pass-through device to capture via firewire from a connected analogue device (VCR). And I also use WinDV, and have done so for years.

The only problem in capturing from the Digital 8 (and indeed from mini DV cameras used as pass-through) arose with VS11 and continues with VS12, which refuses to allow capture from an analogue source. With the Digital 8, this included not only when it was used as a pass-through, but also when I play *analogue* 8mm or Hi8 tapes in the camera and try to capture. The fault arose because Corel in their wisdom changed the capture plug-ins used in VS up to and including version 10. They say the change was forced on them by the advent of Vista which does not (they say) support the DirectShow technology used by the previous plug-ins. However, I have my doubts since other editing packages which are totally compliant with Vista still use DirectShow. And in any case, WinDV works just fine whether under Vista or XP.

Also FWIW, all my computers have recognised the brand and sometimes (with my Canon cameras) the actual model, including in Video Studio. Note that this even occurs with VS11 and 12. They just won't allow capture from an analogue source.

The only other thought I have was prompted by your reference to switching between PLAY and REC mode, which causes the camera to be identified. In the past, some users have found that, depending on their computer set-up, they need to connect the camera and turn it on (in PLAY mode) before opening Video Studio and going to the Capture page, before the camera is recognised. (Note that it usually takes a few seconds before the program will 'see' the camera -- you have to be patient.

) And yet others have found that they can have VS already open, then connect and turn on their cameras, and they receive a VS message box saying that a new device has been detected and do you want to capture from it. You might want to try one or the other method to see if either works.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:38 pm

I've found cheap 4 pin firewire connectors can have problems with connections. I've looked at hundreds of cables and some have a very short connection that pluds in.
I successfully cured a similar problem by taking a knife to the outer plastic casing and cutting an extra milimeter off and this made the connection between cable and socket much more secure.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:21 pm

I can also state that I have NEVER had a problem with my firewire recognizing my Sony D8 cam. Makes me wonder if you have a bad card or cable, or a bad port on the cam.

tyamada · Post by **tyamada** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:37 pm

IIRC my Sony Digital 8 and my HDV HC1 only operate in the play mode, if you switch it to record it won't operate properly.

I have had numerous problems with Firewire cards and cables. Most of the time I found the cable to be the problem. That said I also had a Firewire card with three ports one of which would only work intermittently. Being stubborn I kept trying to get the port to work with no luck. I then moved the cable to another port on the same card and had no problems.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:53 pm

Try this way.
1. With the camcorder turned OFF but connected, start VideoStudio.
2. Select the Capture Tab.
3. Now turn the camcorder ON in playback mode.

You should now get a message

Regarding firewire cables. Whilst I have never had a problem with my Camcorder to Computer with firewire
(Desktop 6 pin to 4 pin / Notebook 4 pin to 4 pin)

I have never had any luck with external firewire hard drives!

paul56 · Post by **paul56** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:04 am

Thanks to all for the responses, my comments are below.

your actual Firewire cable could be a bit wonky....
PCMCIA card, it might not be seated correctly

...except that doesn't explain why the camera in record mode comes up every time. This was top of my worry list given that I've had problems with my Echo Indigo PCMCIA sound card crashing but the slot was checked out when the laptop went back to ACER when the screen failed.

I've found cheap 4 pin firewire connectors can have problems with connections.

As above, if it works in one mode why not another.

Makes me wonder if you have a bad card or cable, or a bad port on the cam.

Ditto as above

I also had a Firewire card with three ports one of which would only work intermittently... I then moved the cable to another port on the same card and had no problems.

Yes, I try this regularly with no obvious result.

1. With the camcorder turned OFF but connected, start VideoStudio.
2. Select the Capture Tab.
3. Now turn the camcorder ON in playback mode.
You should now get a message

Yes this happens - but only on the occasions when the camera is recognised. So problem is not related to VS, WINDV or any other although VS seems to struggle more than WINDV.

Any explanation as to why WINDV reports the camera as a Microsoft DV camera and VCR whereas the Device Manager reports a Sony DV camcorder?

Having said all this, I think I can live with this issue given that the camera is recognised - eventually - and once the video is capturing, no problem, and this part of the whole process doesn't take too long - as opposed to the editing element.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:04 pm

One of the main points is that your camera's firewire connection is not supposed to work at all in REC mode... So that is part of the mystery in and of itself... But at least now we know that it is not just VS that is causing the problem, so once again I can only say that it would appear pretty clearly to be a hardware problem of some kind...

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:13 pm

One of the main points is that your camera's firewire connection is not supposed to work at all in REC mode

Mine does! In fact, on more than one occasion I have used VS to record "live" directly from the camera to my pc via firewire.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:07 pm

Some cams can do this, depends on the internal firmware.
When in record mode does the pc control the cam at all?
If not, then it could be a bad connection as not all pins are used for the same thing.

paul56 · Post by **paul56** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:08 pm

When in record mode does the pc control the cam at all?

In WINDV, when the relevant box is checked, yes it does.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:34 pm

In which case I'm stumped, have to put it down to one of those things.
I'd maybe try the cam with another pc and cable that you know works 'cos you can see it working

mitcs0ke · Post by **mitcs0ke** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:47 pm

Black Lab wrote:
One of the main points is that your camera's firewire connection is not supposed to work at all in REC mode
Mine does! In fact, on more than one occasion I have used VS to record "live" directly from the camera to my pc via firewire.

Both of my Panasonics can also capture live across the firewire
and have no problems. They even have instructions for using them
as web cams.

Another thing I discovered when buying my first firewire card, was that
not all firewire cards are really DV Compatable. So I would check to
see if it is.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:09 pm

mitcs0ke wrote: Another thing I discovered when buying my first firewire card, was that
not all firewire cards are really DV Compatable. So I would check to
see if it is.

That's odd as Apply invented firewire as a way of getting dv in to a computer, then sold passed it on to the IEEE for a token payment, to allow everyone to benefit.
Of course, not all cards were made the same, and it is the compatibility of older cards with pc's that can be the problem.

paul56 · Post by **paul56** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:38 pm

Well it's a while since I originally posted this topic and for months since I have been working away reasonably successfully...until just recently when again I started suffering. This is a long story but bear with me as it is a good one!

On the rare occasions when the camera did synch up I found I was getting massive drop-outs every time. I decided to return the firewire card to where I bought it for them to check it out. I also left them my camera and told them I use WIN DV for capturing. They reported back that using WIN DV gave them problems too but Windows Movie Maker worked perfectly (not something I had tried). When i collected the card and camera I took along my laptop and tried it all out in the shop. Sure enough it worked perfectly (for some reason I didn't try WIN DV as they'd convinced me that was the problem although until now it always worked fine).

When I got home I found the problem STILL existed! I thought it best to replicate my set-up as it was in-store, i.e. disconnect power, mouse, ethernet, USB sound card. Problem still there. The final unlikely remedy was to remove the camera's mains power supply (I'd run on battery at the shop). You can guess what comes next...when the camera is running on battery it synchs-up every time and runs rock solid with no drop-outs. I have tested the power supply output - 8.4v just as it should be. Tried a different battery - same results as before. So my capturing is now to be performed on battery power only - which is no problem at all but I can't think of why this should be happening. I even read a different post that said the mains power supply should always be used.