VS12 loses the plot with MPEG size

[rrmunn]

I've used VideoStudio since version 7 with several versions along the way. Recently I upgraded to VS12 (or VS Pro x2 if you prefer) but have had lots of problems with it. For the most part it works just fine during editing but using the SHARE function to create something is a nightmare.

For example if you use the VSP to create a disk when the main timeline has chapters usually results in chaos. Maninly is destroys the chapters or will not use them or clobbers the names (in the timeline) but not the time codes or the VSP gets corrupted (by that I mean it gets huge but if you save it to a diffrent version like V10 it shrinks to maybe 1/6 of it size) and the list just goes on.

And yes I have reinstalled it, used the latest MS DirectX updates etc.

So I thought I would simply create an MPEG and go one step at a time. For ages I have used 8000kbps VBR 2 pass with good results. But in V12 I end up with redicualously small MPEGs. For example I took a 1:28:00 video clip and rendered it at 8000kbps VBR with Dolby 2/256kbps and the MPEG was 928MB - I wish the compression really was this good. This length video should not possibly fit on a 4.7GB DVD. The video is standard defintion DV 720x576 25fps PAL with some stills as chapter intro etc. The project properties are set to:

PAL (25 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Watching the render process I see the first pass go somewhere over 5GB which seems reasonable but then at 65% (during the 2nd pass) the MPEGS gets to 925MB and just stops. The rendering keeps going but the file stays at 925MB. At 99% there is a burst of disk activity and the MPEG grows to 928MB then rendering stops without error.

I orginally thought that some went wrong and the video was clipped. But viewing it it is complete end to end. The quality however is not great. It looks like the bit rate is a lot lower than it should be. I used NERO ShopwTime to view the MPEG with OSD on to see the bit rate used. In the past a video like this varies all over the place but seem to average around 7Mbps in motion and drops to 3/3.5 for stills. But the video V12 produces just spikes up and down everywhere and seems to average less than 3.5 most of the time although at first it seems to peak at 22Mbps which should not happen either. I guess 3.5 is consistant with the files size but I have checked everything and it is set to 8000kbps.

I tried different bit rates (i.e. 6000kbps) and sure enough it got even smaller (about 755MB @ 6000bps) but processed in the same way.

For very short clips this problem does not seem to occur and the bit rate average seems about right. You need to be over 60 minutes or so but I am not exactly sure exactly how long or really if the clip length has anything to do with it at all.

I have absolutely no idea what is going on. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Black Lab]

For example I took a 1:28:00 video clip and rendered it at 8000kbps VBR with Dolby 2/256kbps

Are these the Project Properties or the Output Properties?

[rrmunn]

The properties set set the same for the project AND the output.

[Black Lab]

For example if you use the VSP to create a disk when the main timeline has chapters usually results in chaos.

That is why for years this forum has recommended against using the VSP in the burn module.

So I thought I would simply create an MPEG and go one step at a time. For ages I have used 8000kbps VBR 2 pass with good results.

What happens if you use 1 pass? Just curious.

[DVDDoug]

I don't know what's going on either... But, these kinds of weird problems usually have something to do with your original audio/video file(s). What format are your original videos? Video Studio is apparently having trouble re-coding/transcoding them... Your original video files may have some slight corruption, or maybe there's just something about the format (or format variation) that Video Studio can't handle.

You might try re-encoding the videos with Nero, before bringing them into Video Studio for editing. I don't know what options Nero gives you, but if you can convert them to DV/AVI (13GB per hour), that's the most trouble-free format. If you don't have that option, or if they are already DV/AVI, try converting them to your "target" MPEG-2 / 8000kbps format. The idea is to re-encode the file, so you get a "clean" (non-corrupted) file, and to get one of the less-compressed, less trouble-prone, formats.

Sometimes, audio or still images can cause trouble too. Again, the less compressed formats tend to be the most touble-free. (WAV for audio and BMP for images).

rendered it at 8000kbps VBR with Dolby 2/256kbps and the MPEG was 928MB - I wish the compression really was this good.

I think you already know this, but you're not getting 8000kbps (for some unknown reason).

File Size in MB = (Bitrate in kbps x Playing Time in minutes) / 140

Bitrate = (140 x File Size in MB) / Playing time in minutes

Those are approximations (there is some rounding and some unknown/different overhead for the various formats). The bitrate is the combined audio & video bitrate, with VBR it's the average (of course).

[rrmunn]

The video is DV type 1 captured via FireWire direct from the camera by VS12 to DV/AVI. I'm only using Nero to display the MPEG result to see what the bit rates are. Normally I would only use NERO to burn copies of the DVD ISO not for anything else. There are stills which are all JPEG and the audio is all MP3 but that's what I've got to work with and have always got reasonable results (not perfect by any means) previously.

I know about using the VSP in the burn module - was just hoping that it might be fixed in VS12 - you can always hold out hope.

I'm going to try a single pass render today to see what happens.

[Black Lab]

In the past VS has had problems with certain types of MP3s, not that it should have this kind of effect on your project. Just for kicks why not convert them to WAV files.

[rrmunn]

OK I did a single pass render. I expected to get (8000+256) * 88 / 140 = 5190MB. I actually got 5345MB which looks good to me.

The 2 pass is going at 140*928/88 = 1476kpbs taking out the audio that's about 1220kbps.

But I noticed something else strange. I have been using nero showtime to display the bitrate but found that the same thing is possible with WinDVD that comes with VS12 and it's better. The thing is watching the video for while, the bit rate is set to VBR 8000 and the real time rate (except for the 22Mbps at the start) is somewhere between 6-7 most of the time which does not seem that bad but is no where near the rate calculated above. But I did notice the time code racing at normal play speed. In 3 minutes real time the video time advances about 16 minutes but the motion (jerky) is not speeded up (at least not 5 times) and the audio is perfect. The time advance slows and speeds up with the bit rate. This sounds impossible unless there is a big chunck of video missing somewhere.

It almost looks like 4/5 of the video stream just flew out the window. But I can't work out why it looks OK when the clip is going to stop playing after a few minutes and not 1:28:00 which is it's true length.

[rrmunn]

OK, I'm still playing around with this.
The probelms I am having are purely related to using 2 pass rendering. I took my project and created CBR and VBR (1 pass) ISO images and burned them to DVD. They play just great in a standaline player.

Then took the same project no changes and checked the 2 pass box. The same things as previously documented started happend EXCEPT a new dialog box popped up at the end:

Some chapter entry frame numbers exceed the total frames.

The ISO image is not created at all. I seem to recall that some other Ulead product had a problem like this a long time ago and needed a patch to fix it (?)