Alludo USER to USER Web Board

Hi guys
Another problem.

I have created 4 different projects, each about 4gb using VS Pro X2.
In 3 cases after I burn the DVD and another DVD, to test the ISO file created at the same time, I have found that the DVDs do not run to the very end. They cut short at about 1 minute before the end.
The 4th project has proved to be ok and both DVDs play completely.

I am using a Pioneer 116D re-write with both Verbatim and Philips DVD-R blank DVDs.

Has anybody come across this thing before??

When I select 'Create DVD' and add the media file I can run the whole mpg all the way through to the end and can still do this once chapters (usually 9 in number) are added.
When the DVD/ISO burning process has completed I am advised that the process has been successful but the DVD that is produced and any subsequent DVDs produced from the ISO file all stop about 1 minute from the end.

I've tried each of these files at least twice on my PC and have also downloaded the X2 programme onto my wife's laptop and done it again there with the same results. Her laptop has an NTI CD DVD-maker 7
so I don't think it's my pioneer equipment that is at fault.

Can you guys throw any light on this for me, it's never happened before.
Many thanks
Mark

Is your burner's firmware up to date?

Hi Mark

markpritch wrote:I have created 4 different projects, each about 4gb using VS Pro X2.

What are the actual sizes?

markpritch wrote:In 3 cases after I burn the DVD and another DVD, to test the ISO file created at the same time, I have found that the DVDs do not run to the very end. They cut short at about 1 minute before the end.

Is there anything different about these three projects, compared with the one that works? Do they have more elaborate menus? Do they have exactly the same video and audio properties as the successful one?

markpritch wrote:The 4th project has proved to be ok and both DVDs play completely.

I think that probably proves there is no problem with your burner, unless you just happened to have six bad discs. That's unlikely.

You might try running a "Transfer Rate" test with CD-DVD Speed. Put one or all three discs (in turn!) in your DVD drive and select the "Benchmark" tab in CD-DVD Speed, then click "Start". The resulting graph of the read speed should be a smooth curve. Any spikes could indicate a burn problem, and these are most likely to occur right at the end of the disc....

markpritch wrote:I am using a Pioneer 116D re-write with both Verbatim and Philips DVD-R blank DVDs.

The Pioneer is well regarded. I have a 112D, and amongst my many DVD burners, it can successfully write to the widest range of blank media, usually with pretty good write quality. I now only buy Taiyo Yuden premium grade 8x DVD+R discs online, for about $30 for a 100 cakebox. IMHO they are far superior to all other discs.

Hi guys

Sorry to be so long I've been collating some data.

Thanks for your responses. I picked up what you said about your DVDs on the last post 2 Dogs and will seek those out when I come to renew.
I think they are about £30 here.

Two of the DVDs are of my granddaughter's first year. Part 1 is the one that is ok, part 2 doesn't finish. They each have exactly the same menu characteristics except part 2 finishes with about 20 photographs which I pan and zoom.
The ISO of Part 1 is 3.91gb and Part 2 is 3.99gb

The other two dvds are of another of my daughter's weddings.
They are both identical except for a very minor change in the 25 or so photos I have attached at the end. In each case the ISO files are 3.99gb.

In every case the dvds stop during the photo run and then start over from the beginning.

I had already completed both of these projects last year and was able to take several copies of all the DVDs from the VS programme during the original burn.
These worked ok and have been distributed. I recently decided to take some more copies and then make up the ISO files, something I had not done before, for future posterity. To my surprise I found all the copies I took from the originals that I burned as part of the overal VS X2 programme seemed to be corrupted in one way or another (the chapters wouldn't work, the screen would turn green etc.etc ) so I decided to re-create the originals from the mpeg files which I had kept and, at the same time get to grips with the ISO files, hence my questions the other day.

You may recall after the ISO Question that I downloaded the free ISO Create Burn from NBXsoft prior to installing CDSpeed and I have used both of these, as well as my wife's NTI CD DVD maker, to try to burn DVDs from the ISO files and i am getting the same result each time.

I managed to do the Part 1 DVD from the ISO on my wife's laptop last week because when I double clicked on the ISO file it automatically kicked the NTI into life but I could not replicate that on my desktop with the version of Nero that I had.

In answer to Black Lab, I am unaware whether my burner's firmware is up to date but I have only recently installed the 116D in replacement of, what I thought was, a faulty 109D

OK I've now carried out tests on 3 dvds, one of which was burned on the laptop and 2 on my desktop and they all have dips.

The first has a dip on the green line at 1.45gb from 11-10.5 then a larger dip from 15.5 to 14.5 at 3.90gb, also a dip on the yellow from 7 - 6.5

The second has a dip on the green at .9gb from 9.5 - 9, yellow 7-6.7, then again at 1.4gb from 11 - 10.5 green and 7- 6.7 yellow, then another at 3.7gb from 15-14.25 green and 7 - 6.5 on yellow then finally at 3.9gb from 15.5 - 14.9 green and 7 - 6.5 yellow

The third dipped at 1.4gb 10.7 - 10.5 green and 7 - 6.9 yellow, at 1.6gb 11 - 10.5 green and 7 - 6.7 green then again at 2.5gb 13 - 12.1 green and 7 - 6.5 yellow and finally a big one at 3.9gb 15.5 - 14.5 green and yellow 7 - 6.5. With this one, done on the laptop with NCI, the green line does not touch the pink whereas the yellow line does.

So it seems you may well be right about a problem with the burner. I would then have to ask if it's likely to occur on two different pc's. The laptop is only a year old and the 116D on my desktop is brand new, I only put it in a week or so ago?

I really appreciate this help, any ideas what I should do next??
Thanks Mark

Hi again
I forgot to mention.
I have a Panasonic dvd recorder on which I record various TV programmes, including films.
Whenever I copy one of these, maybe 2 hours but without chapters etc., I have no problem whatsoever. They all record witout a hitch.
These probs only occur when I am working on my home produced family dvds.
Just in case that info is of some help.
Cheers
Mark

Hi Mark,

thanks for trying the tests and reporting back with the results.

Regarding the transfer rate tests, the dips might not necessarily prove that there is a problem - since when you play a DVD it only needs to be read at 1x speed, but they are a good first indicator of a burning problem. Any large dip near the end would be significant. The ones at 0.9Gb and so on obviously haven't caused any playback problems.

The green line is the read speed, whilst the yellow line is the rotation speed of the disc. If the green line dips below 1x, you would be certain to experience a playback problem - but you might also have a problem if it dips to 2x.

As for any discs burned on the laptop - laptop burners usually give inferior write quality than full size units in desktop pc's, or even external burners. I would burn everything with the desktop pc.

There would be no harm in checking for firmware updates for your 116D. It's possible to buy a new burner yet still find new firmware available for it.

Sometimes, however, a firmware update can actually adversely affect the burn quality with certain media. I found that to be the case with my Samsung burner and TDK 16x DVD+R discs, made in Malaysia, with a Daxon AZ3 media code. I have now cross-flashed the Samsung with Korean firmware, which also happens to fix an issue with the burner when used with DVD-R media that was not addressed by any of the other Samsung firmware....

CD-DVD Speed of course shows you what firmware you have in your burner in the top middle scroll box. For example my Samsung SH-182M now shows as TSSTcorp CD/DVDW TS-H652M KC03 with the Korean KC03 firmware I installed. You should see PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-116D v1.06. (if 1.06 is still the latest firmware!)

The 116D is connected with an IDE cable - you might check to see that it is an 80 conductor type, rather than a 40 conductor one. That can help with fast burns of 16x or more.

The 116D has a burn strategy optimiser, that is disabled by default. You can get the utility to set it here:

http://www.pioneer.eu/files/support/uti ... tility.zip

It will adjust the burning speed to optimise write quality. In tests on Verbatim 16xDVD+R media, it increased the burn time to around 10 minutes, but significantly increased the burn quality.

I hadn't realised you were in England. With the pound being so weak, lots of things seems to be cheaper there than over here in the US - but ¢G1:20 for a disc seems to be a bit steep! Rip-off Britain eh?

You might try Sony 16x DVD+R, which give good results, as do the above mentioned TDK 16x DVD+R discs with the Made in Malaysia label - but if the Verbatim discs you have are 16x DVD+R they should work well, especially if you enable the write-quality optimiser mentioned above.

If you're interested, you can also make your burner region-free, enabling you to play NTSC DVD's without using up any of the five changes you are otherwise allowed to make for the drive region. Here's a link to MCSE, the program you would use for that:

http://ala42.cdfreaks.com/MCSE/

Good luck!

When you say this problem occurs on two computers, are you saying the problem is burning the ISO that was created on ONE computer.

If so then you are looking in the wrong place, you should be looking at the creation of that ISO. If the ISO is faulty then it matters not how many computers, burners or even firmware updates you try.

When you created the ISO did you follow my recommended procedure and create a DVD compliant MPEG2 file BEFORE you went to the DVD authoring stage?

Suggested work flow by SJJ1805 for Video Creation

Hi guys
Thanks for the responses, I will try those couple of things today.
Re the TY DVDs, something was lost in translation. I had a 'pound' sign in front of the 30 for a cake of 100 and it came out wrong when I submitted.
So it should have read 30 pounds (for the cake), so not quite such a rip-off, haha!!

Hi sjj
I did make mpegs from all of the clips but honestly cannot remember whether they were mpeg 2. I just followed the steps in the 'share' and 'create dvd' process. I had to make them 'frame based' as I had problems with flickering in some of the pictures, you may recall my earlier posts.
I cannot tell now what type of mpeg they are as in 'properties' it just says Mpeg Video.

I created seperate ISO files on each of the machines, so was trying to burn a dvd on the machine's own produced ISO. Hope that's clear, sounds a bit messy.

It's not only the ISO file that is causing the problem because if I take the Mpeg and add that media file to the 'Create Disc' facility then add the chapters, music, titles etc. I get the same result if I just burn a DVD without making an ISO file of it.
The tests I did with CDSpeed were on DVDs that were produced from an ISO file and also a DVD that was burned directly from the Pro X2 programme. They all had similar results.

Unfortunately I didn't spot that these DVDs were incomplete until after I had deleted all the clips so I am now a little stuck. They were originally from cassette tapes and took around 150gb on my hard drive.
I had been testing them by merely running through each chapter to see if it started ok. Didn't occur to me that the final chapter would not finish until I was looking for a specific photo on one of the discs.

hope that's of some help, but sorry cannot be more specific about the actual mpeg type.

Cheers
Mark

Hi guys
Some good news.

I started by downloading the burn strategy optimiser and then enabled it.
I checked my drives with Driver Detective and the 1.06 that I have for the 116D they say is up to date. Although I have seen references re 1.09 on the internet I have not downloaded these.
I have not downloaded the region-free enabler as this would have compromised any warranty on the 116D and I need to know firstly whether it is working ok.

I then burned another dvd from the mpeg but did not bother with screens, chapters etc. and it played perfectly on my TV through the dvd player from beginning to end.

I then carried out a bench speed check and found that the writing started at a little over 5x then at about .4gb the yellow line shot up to 7 where it stayed and the green line went straight to 8.2 from where it climbed to 15.5 by the end. There were no spikes at all at the end and only one minor dip at around 1.5gb where the green dropped from 11 to 10.5.

I'm now going to do the full DVD again with chapters, music etc and will report back.
:D
I am so grateful for your patience and ideas, my grandchildren will have a lot to thank you for if I can salvage these precious memories.
Mny thanks
Mark

Hi Mark,

glad you're making progress. If you have no need for region-free capability in your DVD drive, then I can understand your reluctance to run MCSE - but a warranty on a GBP25 DVD drive really doesn't amount to much. You can also revert to non-region free firmware at any time too. I hate the whole region concept, and use my 111D to play PAL discs over here in NTSC land.

Did you check your burn times with the write optimiser enabled?

The GBP30 for 100 TY discs sounds good and makes them a worthwhile buy when you run out of Verbatim 16x DVD+R. Were those the Verbatim discs you were using?

Here's a link to the 1.09 firmware, which was released in November last year. It addresses some issues for Vista users, but also updates the media types. If you are in the habit of only burning to a select few types of blank media, the update should have no tangible effect.

http://wwwbsc.pioneer.co.jp/product-e/i ... 109EU2.EXE

Regarding the faulty disc for which you have deleted the original source material - there are some things you might try.

First of all, try importing the disc in VS. That will create a single large mpeg2 file, and you can check to see if it will play all the way thru.

You could use that mpeg2 file to recreate the original project though you would probably need to do some work on the menus.

If the imported file does not play all the way thru, or if VS struggles to read the disc, you could also try simply copying the DVD folders of the disc to your hard drive. You can then check playback on your pc using a software DVD player, such as WinDVD etc.

Again, if you have trouble copying all of the folders or there are playback problems, one further thing would be to use DVD Decrypter, a freeware program, to attempt to copy the disc onto your hard drive. Although your DVD is obviously not encrypted, DVD Decrypter has good error compensating ability and might just make a workable copy of the DVD.

Once you have that, you can burn the folders back to a DVD, and your project will be salvaged, though possibly with a small glitch or flicker at the problem point. Might just save you capturing all that cassette footage again.

Hi Mark

I have been following this post with interest, but am also a little confused.
Maybe I am just reading it wrong but in an earlier post you referred to burning levels and indicated that the yellow portion could be seen containing video.
Quote:- (The first has a dip on the green line at 1.45gb from 11-10.5 then a larger dip from 15.5 to 14.5 at 3.90gb, also a dip on the yellow from 7 - 6.5)

If this is when looking at Video Studio¡¦s burner module then you appear to have inserted video greater than 4.3 Gb.
You should avoid the yellow and definitely red sections, keeping in the green is the correct approach.
In the yellow is a borderline case and just may fit to disc, but don¡¦t hold your breath.
If you created an Iso showing yellow then this file will be complete but just over sized and may not burn fully, missing the last portions.

As I say I am a little confused here with the reference to yellow? Can you confirm.

Hi Trevor,

I believe Mark was referring to the green and yellow lines on the graphical display of Nero CD-DVD Speed, when used to perform a transfer rate test on a DVD disc as a means of determining possible burn quality problems.

Hi 2Dogs

Thanks for that, it does seem a strange problem as though the files are just over size.
Can¡¦t be that simple, it was just a thought.

Hi guys
Thanks for communicating between yourselves. I had just written a response to Trevor but hit a wrong key and lost the lot!!

So thanks 2 dogs I am making progress but haven't done the full DVD again yet as we had unexpected guests turn up this afternoon. I will have another go this evening.
Yes I was using Verbatim DVD-R 16x but they have all gone so I am now using Philips DVD-R 1-16x.
What is the exact spec of your TY's? I would certainly like to try them but there seems to be such a range.

I understand your comments about the 25 ppound rewriter and will certainly download the software to convert once I've dug myself out of this mess!! Meantime I will download the 1.09 update prior to burning any more dvds'. Many thanks for all these links, you've been a fantastic help.

I also know what you mean about uploading the dvd, although I produced that from the original mpeg, which seems to be ok.
It is only the very original clips that made up the mpeg files which were deleted.
So I think it's just a case of uploading each mpeg and then inserting menus etc. and reburning and creating fresh ISOs.

Once I've done that I'll be able to sleep again!!

Two of the DVDs are of my first granddaughter and the other 2 are slightly different versions of one of our daughter's weddings so very important to have a 'master' in case these DVDs start to break up.

I'm very sorry but I didn't check the burn times. I'll try to determine when I next do the entire project.

I can't thank you enough.

Cheers
Mark
++

Hi 2 Dogs
Some good news, some bad.
The DVD Burning time was considerably reduced to 30 minutes from around 50 minutes but the bad news is that, having added the chapters, titles etc. the DVD cuts off at almost exactly the same point as before.
In fact, just 1 photo sooner, so about 8 seconds sooner.

I had downloaded 1.9 but can't think that would be a problem.

I've done a speed check and had a dip on the green line from 10.4 to 9.9 at 1.2gb while the yellow was minimal, then two very minor dips around 1.5gb, a larger dip from 12-11(green) and 7-6.25 (yellow) at 1.9gb and finally another at 3.8gb from 15.2-14.3 on the green and 7-6.5 on yellow.
Both lines reached the pink.

I've re-read your earlier responses and now realise that you use DVD+R whereas I have been using DVD-R. Could that be an issue?

I used the exact same mpeg file that I used successfully earlier today, when I got a complete DVD which played from beginning to end, but had no chapters, titles etc.

Although I find it hard to believe do you think my additions to the raw mpeg are too complicated. I have made DVDs in the past with similar lenghth and titles but then I was using VS 9 and 10.

My DVDs run for about 1hr 24mins, the finished version, with titles etc are 4.30gb so well inside the permitted area, I don't reach the yellow marker on 'create Disc', and they all have 9 chapters.

I've not tested the ISO file that was created at the same time but imaging that will also produce a DVD that finishes a minute or two before the end.

Any further thought/ideas would be extremely welcome.

It's 11.30pm now so I'm off to bed.
Cheers one and all!!
Mark