AVC-HD versus HDV editing in X2 Pro

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:04 pm

AVCHD format is a pain for most of the Video editors made for consumer market. Having a Quad core processor alleviates the problem a bit.
Video editing software companies have begrudgingly accepted that AVCHD is here to stay and must be working overtime to fix editing problems. Well they will come out with a new version VSXP13 and we will end up ugrading to it at a cost

GRDVDjunkie · Post by **GRDVDjunkie** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:25 pm

My advice to all VideoStudio users is simple : STAY AWAY from AVC - HD.
The average user, does not have access to the powerfull Xeon quad-core
driven workstations with 32 GB of ECC fully-buffered RAM that Hollywood studios have at their disposal (as well as ADVANCED versions of the AVC codec that`s designed for the Blu-ray`s maximum bitrate of 40 Mbits),
as well as professional cameras that cooperate smoothly with professio-
nal-level video editors. Stick to MPEG-2 (i.e HDV), which is a mature
and refined compression format. If you want mind-boggling video qua-
lity here it is : Canon XH-G1s (1920-1080 HDV). First and foremost,
get a very capable PC.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:33 pm

If you want mind-boggling video quality here it is : Canon XH-G1s (1920-1080 HDV).

Sure, I'll dig up that $7,000 that I have in my seat cushions and go buy one.

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:36 pm

GRDVDjunkie wrote: If you want mind-boggling video qua-
lity here it is : Canon XH-G1s (1920-1080 HDV).

Although the Canon G1 is a nice cam... I'm afraid there is no such thing as HDV at 1920x 1080.

HDV is 1440x1080
Full HD is 1920x1080

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:52 am

As I understand it, some HDV cameras actually film using full HD (1920 x 1080) but when downloaded, it is 'downconverted to the standard 1440 x 1080.

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:49 pm

HDV is a STANDARD with a max resolution of 1440x1080. It was set that way merely because that was about the maximum that tape could handle.

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:31 pm

Hi
So far I know there are some JVC camcorders that can record HDV onto harddisk and can output them via firewire.
They should behave like a normal HDV camcorder but record to hdd instead of tape.
Don't know the exact model numbers but you should find them by viditing JVC's website.

EDIT: Just saw this thread and I think that this is such a model that can record HDV onto HDD:
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?p=177322#177322

Regards
Sektionschef

GRDVDjunkie · Post by **GRDVDjunkie** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:27 am

Very often, people watching great films, do not realize the huge inve-
stments that studios carry out in terms of hardware (cameras that
record UNCOMPRESSED - and therefore huge amounts of digitized
analog information - video), and software (high-end video editors
AND professional level codecs and encoders that ensure that the digital - I repeat UNCOMPRESSED - matrix remains available for later reworking
if need be) in post-production. FORTUNATELY, THERE ARE cameras that
can shoot video with MPEG-2 compression at the 1920-1080 resolution
(FullHD). These cams are for ambitious videographers that will not ma-
ke any concessions on video quality, or even one-man news crew that
need BROADCAST-QUALITY footage, that can also be archived.
What separates an expensive quality camera from any other, are ce-
rtain features that contribute to shooting quality video :
1. Three CCDs, instead of only one or only one CMOS.
2. Large quality optics and sencors that enable the videographer
to capture (and digitize) a lot more analog info of the world and the
events around him.
3. A manual focus ring, for fine tuning and adapting to the movement
and the distance of the subject / object that`s being recorded.
4. The almighty HD (or SD in the era of standard definition video) -
SDI (High Definition Serial Digital Interface), which in plain English
is basically the stairway to heaven : it allows the cataclysmic
amounts of UNCOMPRESSED video to pour into the computer`s
1 Terabyte (and anything upwards) hard disks, where the real
fun begins, because you have raw HIGH QUALITY FOOTAGE at
your disposal and you can do with it as you please, depending
on your intended audience. Video editing programs absolutely
LOOOVE the DV-AVI footage (they were designed to deal with
the miniDV format which uses 5 : 1 compression) and professi-
onal video editing programs absolutely LOOOOVE IT, when they
are fed with uncompressed video and at bit rates that the avera-
ge Joe will never get from his little comsumer camera (i.e. any-
thing above 90Mbit/s).
5. XLR ports for multichannel audio recording.
6. A plethora of manual controls to fine-tune and adapt your
shooting to - even rapidly - changing conditions.
A company like Canon, does not have to give a damn about whe-
ther you, I or anybody else has 7000 dollars to go and buy the
prosumer-level Canon HX-G1s (remember, we are referring to
true 16 : 9 aspect ratio, and 1 : 0 pixel aspect ratio, or geometry
- no anamorphic alchemy here as is the case with the 1.333 pixel
aspect ratio of 1440 X 1080 of say, my pretty little Sony HDR-HC3
or any other similar).
May I remind also everybody in the Corel / Ulead forums, that Blu-
ray players BY DEFAULT, do not only support the decoding and play
back of material encoded with the much-advertised AVC-HD (H.264)
but also with Microsoft`s VC-1 codec, AND MPEG-2 HD. So, don`t
get crazy with the idea that MPEG-2 will vanish anytime soon. It won`t.
It doesn`t have to, at least untill AVC reaches maturity and the com-
puters acqire cheap enough and with enough horsepower processors
and with enough RAM to edit it properly.
Us comnsumers, must finally learn to keep cool, and play the Waiting Game. Timing is everything, when it comes to making an inves-
tment in hardware. And in software ! (Although, programs will al-
ways have a few bugs-it seems inevitable).
SAVE MONEY and make no compromises regarding video quali-
ty. "Garbage in, garbage out". We don`t want that, guys, do we ?

lassegus · Post by **lassegus** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:18 am

I can confirm the reply from Sektionschef, which refers to my post,
that JVC GZ-HD6 records on HDD in MPEG-2 format.

I have tested 1440x1080 as well as Full HD and it works smothly in VS when loading via USB to the computer and then inserting the files to VS.
I do the editing in the native format HDV or FD and convert to standard DVD when burning. My computer is only a Pentium 4 with 2x3,2 GHz processors so it takes some time.

Przemek · Post by **Przemek** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:21 pm

mrjohndawson wrote:.. which is where I am! But I can't report yet on whether there is any visible quality loss but wouod be grateful for others experience.

I can confirm no noticable quality loss - I convert AVCHD footing from an SD card (HF100) to HD (using Upshift - highest setting) - edit and record an AVCHD disk (CBR 18000). To test that I also used two scenes which were not converted (I did not use transitions to avoid glitches) and recorded 42 minutes on a single layer disk - it worked perfectly

. The quality is excellent, however, I must admit that I can just notice slight loss of contrast (I'm a purist, but I'm happy with the result).

hope it helps,

pwholzel · Post by **pwholzel** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:21 pm

Przemek, do I have to buy Upshift? Can't I just use VSX2 to convert AVCHD to HDV, then edit HDV, then output AVCHD? Will there be a quality difference? Thanks.

Przemek · Post by **Przemek** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:04 am

Don't know - haven't tried X2. Try both - you can download upshift and try - it converts only 10s of a clip - sufficient for a test. Let me know how it goes.
regards,

Przemek · Post by **Przemek** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:55 pm

Przemek wrote:
mrjohndawson wrote:.. which is where I am! But I can't report yet on whether there is any visible quality loss but wouod be grateful for others experience.
I can confirm no noticable quality loss - I convert AVCHD footing from an SD card (HF100) to HD (using Upshift - highest setting) - edit and record an AVCHD disk (CBR 18000). To test that I also used two scenes which were not converted (I did not use transitions to avoid glitches) and recorded 42 minutes on a single layer disk - it worked perfectly . The quality is excellent, however, I must admit that I can just notice slight loss of contrast (I'm a purist, but I'm happy with the result).

hope it helps,

Sorry - made a mistake - obviously it is a dual-layer disk that can take 44 minutes of high quality AVCHD.

Przemek

ks-atsf · Post by **ks-atsf** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:51 pm

sherman39 wrote:\

I have now used VSX2 batch convert to convert AVCHD to HDV and it seems to work well. The only reason I mentioned AVCHD Upshift initially is because in my ignorance (untill a few days ago) I hadn't known that VS could do this.

What file format did you choose in Batch Convert in VSX2? I don't see any that look like HD?

Thanks

sherman39 · Post by **sherman39** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:50 pm

This is the procedure I followed.One hour of AVCHD took about 5 Hours (I think) to convert so be prepared for a long wait.

Once you have inserted your AVCHD clip(s) into the batch convert tool, save as type MPEG. Then go into options and under the compression tab change to MPEG2 and set the video date rate to whatever you want.
Then in the General Tab set frame type to upper field first and in the Standard drop down box choose 1440x1080 and click OK.
At the bottom of the batch convert tool should be the settings you have chosen and if satisfactory click convert.

Regards

paul