AVC-HD versus HDV editing in X2 Pro

nmehta · Post by **nmehta** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:33 pm

I am looking into buying a HD Camcorder. I am leaning towards the Canon HG20 HD Video Camcorder which records in M2TS format, compressed via AVC-HD.

After reading all the threads, I see a common theme - AVC-HD offers convenience (compared to HDV) but the content is very hard to edit.
Is X2 Pro with all the latest patches a good software package to edit AVC-HD videos?
Has anyone tried the HG20 HD Video Camcorder with X2 Pro?

I am using Vista on a Quad processor and wish to make family videos (consumer level)..
Your opinions are much appreciated, as always.

Regards,

Neel

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:38 pm

If you read the threads you will see many people have problems either editing or playing back (or both) AVCHD files. Each camcorder manufacturer seems to provide rudimentary software which handles their particular AVCHD files well, but isn't much of an editor.

HDV, on the other hand, seems to get along nicely with most editors, including VS.

sherman39 · Post by **sherman39** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:55 pm

In theory your computer should as I understand it,be able cope with AVCHD. However there is a product called AVCHD Upshift by Newbluefx/Vasst (there may be others) that will convert AVCHD to HDV which will then edit quite comfortably in VSX2.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:54 pm

The other problem with the HG20 (if I have the right camera in mind) is that it uses the new upper limit for AVCHD's bitrate, namely 24 Mbps. This will of course give you great quality. But X2 was written before that new standard was adopted, I am pretty sure, and X2 will probably not be able to handle it at all. I know that I downloaded the sample 24 Mbps file from the Canon website shot with an HG10, but it plays jerkily on my Quad using X2... and remains that way when I edit it and output it using the same settings, and playback in software players capable of playing AVCHD.

mrjohndawson · Post by **mrjohndawson** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:56 pm

I am very grateful to Ken and Sherman for their contributions. I too found Corel in the UK in denial over AVCHD problems.

I have a Panasonic SD9. I get all the problems with AVCHD that have been well aired. The "new" patch helped and stopped me abandoning X2 Pro because it is, so frustratingly, close to good (once, as Ken repeats wisely, you have at least Core 2 Duo). But the editing and transition glitch problem still makes Videostudio unuseable for a final product.

When Sherman and others said you can clean the data with AVCHD Upshift and not lose quality as with Nero I wondered. Cleaning video files of intermittent problems has been something present since the early days of editing. And MSP was one of the best I found for cleaning. So here's two cleaning thoughts:

* the Popcorn Media streamer group have found they need to clean some AVCHD data to play and this thread gives links to freeware to do this
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/archi ... -9379.html

* but can Videostudio clean its own AVCHD data? While I have tried AVCHD Upshift, and it was good at converting to mpg2 hd, it lost the 5.1 sound en route. But has anyone actually had problems converting to mpg2 for editing with Videostudio itself and then re-encoding to AVCHD? The Videostudio encoding/re-encoding is fast and seems to fire up optimisation. We need Videostudio's AVCHD to work but is the only downside of this workaround is that it just takes time and more disk space?

I am also thinking about buying the WDTV streamer and wonder if anyone has managed to play AVCHD output from Videostudio on that successfully?

sherman39 · Post by **sherman39** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:28 pm

Dear John

I have now used VSX2 batch convert to convert AVCHD to HDV and it seems to work well. The only reason I mentioned AVCHD Upshift initially is because in my ignorance (untill a few days ago) I hadn't known that VS could do this.
That said AVCHD Upshift does give the option to vary Keyframes and GOP during the conversion, which may be a good thing. I'm not yet smart enough to understand if these options are worth paying for but thanks to Vidoman who, in another thread, pointed me in the direction of some links that will hopefully help me to understand about GOP.

Regards

Paul

Dabitz · Post by **Dabitz** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:27 am

Quick question, if you use batch convert to change the files to HDV, you no longer can do a hybrid disc right?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:19 am

Not unless you do your edits in HDV, then convert back to AVCHD for the hybrid disc...

mrjohndawson · Post by **mrjohndawson** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:40 am

.. which is where I am! But I can't report yet on whether there is any visible quality loss but wouod be grateful for others experience.

Dabitz · Post by **Dabitz** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:06 pm

I keep spreading the message to the world, get HDV not AVCHD when you buy a camera. I wonder how Pinnacle handles AVCHD, but again, I already tried Sony Vega (no good) and VS12+, budget is tight and Pinnacle is expensive.

nosnoop · Post by **nosnoop** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:06 pm

Dabitz wrote:I keep spreading the message to the world, get HDV not AVCHD when you buy a camera.

But the fact that HDV uses tape has steered me away.
After using tapeless camcorder, I will NEVER go back to tapes again.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:44 pm

HDV = uses tape with no problems editing

OR

AVCHD = does not use tape and I need new, powerful computer and still probably have trouble editing and/or playing

Hmmm. When the time comes for me to move to HD I think I'll stick with HDV until somebody figures out AVCHD.

nosnoop · Post by **nosnoop** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:50 pm

Black Lab wrote:AVCHD = does not use tape and I need new, powerful computer and still probably have trouble editing and/or playing

As long as you have a quad core PC, it should be fine.

Hmmm. When the time comes for me to move to HD I think I'll stick with HDV until somebody figures out AVCHD.

Actually, some software already works very well with AVCHD. And of all things, the free bundled software which comes with Canon camcorder, the Pixela ImageMixer works perfectly with AVCHD. The Pixela AVCHD player can play the video flawlessly, and its ImageMixer can smart render AVCHD clips flawlessly with none of those glitches. If only ImageMixer is not so limited in its editing capability....

That's why it is so disappointing that Corel has not yet been able to fix the X2. Are they even trying? Do I have to look elsewhere soon?

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:03 am

As long as you have a quad core PC, it should be fine.

Yes, I know. That is exactly my point. I can edit HDV with the computer I have now. To edit (hopefully) AVCHD I have to spend another $1500+ for a new computer.

Actually, some software already works very well with AVCHD. And of all things, the free bundled software which comes with Canon camcorder, the Pixela ImageMixer works perfectly with AVCHD. The Pixela AVCHD player can play the video flawlessly, and its ImageMixer can smart render AVCHD clips flawlessly with none of those glitches. If only ImageMixer is not so limited in its editing capability....

That's why it is so disappointing that Corel has not yet been able to fix the X2. Are they even trying? Do I have to look elsewhere soon?

Aside from the minimally featured software that comes with the camera, I know of no software (Pinnacle, Sony, etc.) that can perfectly edit AVCHD. Don't lay all the blame on Corel. Much of the blame needs to go to the cam manufacturers for not having a standard form of AVCHD.

Dabitz · Post by **Dabitz** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:42 am

I spent over 1500 on a quadcore super PC and still have the "step back" error when rendering avchd. That's why I am so dissapointed.

I know that software that come with cameras, in my case sony, work well. However, you can't do video editing at the level VS12+ allows.