Patch did not help MPEG4 problems

[metmot]

VS X2 pro continues to not handle either the edit nor the creation of MPEG4 files even after applying the "patch" .

As soon as I insert an MPEG4 file into the timeline Video Studio encounters a problem and must close.

Properties: H.264, 640x480. 29.9699999999fps, 1.11mbps
MPEG4 Audio stereo 48khz, 192kbps

I fully expected VS to have no problem with this file but it simply crashes every time.

I created some such files with a third party freeware application called MPEG streamclip due to this problem existing in VS from the word go. I wanted to encode MPEG4 h.264 for small files for the purpose of uploading to the internet. The clips work for that purpose nicely but VS appears to be completely useless for anything related to MPEG4 despite it's menus which only crash if you select them. I had false hope when I saw the so called patch.

As far as I can tell VS can to date neither edit nor create mpeg4 video.

[Ken Berry]

Can you send me a short sample of your mpeg-4 files please -- via my email address below. Something less than 10 MB if possible, please. I will test it at my end. I don't currently have any non-high def mpeg-4 available to play around with.

[metmot]

Can you send me a short sample of your mpeg-4 files please -- via my email address below. Something less than 10 MB if possible, please. I will test it at my end. I don't currently have any non-high def mpeg-4 available to play around with.

The smallest file I can find is 23 megs. I will try to send it but if it doesn't go through I will make something smaller today.

I found the freeware MPEG streamclip after VS failed to encode my HD video projects into H.264 MPEG4 without crashing. It also has more precise output specs than VS and is a pretty cool little utility really. You have to uninstall quicktime and install a specific build of quicktime alternative to make it work which is in itself a blessing if you love quicktime as much as I do. QT alt is much smaller and less invasive and doesn't want to run all the time in the background. MPEG streamclip can be found here http://www.squared5.com/

It was later I tried to insert the files I had made into the timeline with the same unstable results. I have VS installed on two very different machines with the exact same results so I will be very surprised if you have different results. Have you tried to create an h.264 file using the create file menu in VS? That's where I had my first problems of crashing. It appears to be encoding it for a while and then......crash.

I read several places that h.264 is the best format for uploading HD to the web and with some experimenting I agree. The file sizes are markedly decreased without loss that is discernible. Here is an example that I uploaded to youtube's new higher quality player. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXmN7ayxAyU Pretty cool quality wise when watched in HD. Here is also a football highlights I put together filmed in bad light with my CanonHV30 and uploaded in HD using the h.264 format. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QrxSrI_euA

I found both of these clips actually looked better when uploaded to Vimeo or Exposure Room but I am really in my experimental stages (ongoing forever I hope). You tube is almost usable now with their new player though.

Well enough of that rant,

I will get you a clip today.

Thanks again,

[2Dogs]

The smallest file I can find is 23 megs. I will try to send it but if it doesn't go through I will make something smaller today.

You can use WinRAR to make a self-extracting archive, split into sub-10MB chunks suitable for emailing to Ken.

In defence of VS, bear in mind that there is an almost unlimited number of ways in which a pc can be configured, or mis-configured, and that your mp4 problem is more than likely not caused by VS.

I use a freeware third party application for encoding to xVid, h.264 and the best of the bunch IMO, x.264. VS, being a consumer video editor, will never be able to do everything as well as some other programs. The most sensible approach would be to use VS to make up a project and output to a suitable, preferably lossless format, then use the third party application to encode to the highly compressed distribution format of your choice. I daresay Streamclip is not much of a video editor.

[metmot]

The smallest file I can find is 23 megs. I will try to send it but if it doesn't go through I will make something smaller today.

You can use WinRAR to make a self-extracting archive, split into sub-10MB chunks suitable for emailing to Ken.

In defence of VS, bear in mind that there is an almost unlimited number of ways in which a pc can be configured, or mis-configured, and that your mp4 problem is more than likely not caused by VS.

I use a freeware third party application for encoding to xVid, h.264 and the best of the bunch IMO, x.264. VS, being a consumer video editor, will never be able to do everything as well as some other programs. The most sensible approach would be to use VS to make up a project and output to a suitable, preferably lossless format, then use the third party application to encode to the highly compressed distribution format of your choice. I daresay Streamclip is not much of a video editor.

Thanks 2dogs. I understand VS can't do certain things but it should at least perform what is in it's menus without crashing. Not accepting a certain format into the timeline I can almost understand but it should output from an MPEG2 to the formats listed in the share menus without crashing. I consider that a bug and was reminded of it when I saw the patch thus my post when nothing seemed to improve in the MPEG4 world.

I had the same problem on my old computer exactly and on my new one plus another backup I use. They all run XP Pro but other than that have almost nothing in common so I have a hard time buying it's the configuration of the machine.

Anyway of course Streamclip isn't much of an editor. It isn't made to do much but encode really which it does a pretty good job of albiet slow. What third party program are you using?

I will send a sample to Ken and see what happens down under. I know the toilets flush in the opposite direction but can't predict MPEG4 behavior

[2Dogs]

Not accepting a certain format into the timeline I can almost understand but it should output from an MPEG2 to the formats listed in the share menus without crashing.

I have no problems, in either VS11.5 or X2 in outputting to mpeg4, on both an older desktop and a couple of laptops - so that tells me there is no bug.

The file properties of your mpeg4 files suggest they are from a digital camera. Perhaps you could tell us the source. I think VS is having a problem with the mpeg4 audio, and it's returning an odd number for the frame rate, which you would expect to be either 30fps or 29.97.

You may have no option but to run the clips thru some sort of converter, to convert the audio. The freeware Cam2avi program might help. It just puts clips in an avi wrapper. but maybe VS will then accept the audio and it's probably worth a try. Running the clips thru the converter is quick.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mp4cam2avi/

Maybe you could also install ffdshow, which is easy to uninstall if it gives no benefit.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow

[metmot]

Not accepting a certain format into the timeline I can almost understand but it should output from an MPEG2 to the formats listed in the share menus without crashing.

I have no problems, in either VS11.5 or X2 in outputting to mpeg4, on both an older desktop and a couple of laptops - so that tells me there is no bug.

The file properties of your mpeg4 files suggest they are from a digital camera. Perhaps you could tell us the source. I think VS is having a problem with the mpeg4 audio, and it's returning an odd number for the frame rate, which you would expect to be either 30fps or 29.97.

You may have no option but to run the clips thru some sort of converter, to convert the audio. The freeware Cam2avi program might help. It just puts clips in an avi wrapper. but maybe VS will then accept the audio and it's probably worth a try. Running the clips thru the converter is quick.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mp4cam2avi/

Maybe you could also install ffdshow, which is easy to uninstall if it gives no benefit.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow

Actually the example MPEG4 file was encoded using MPEGstream from an MPEG2 file which I created entirely within VS as a photo montage originally so in essence there was no camera involved

I have found acceptable work flow not using VS to encode but was simply trying to find out why it won't perform as I expect. Inquiring minds want to know. The more I learn the more questions I have it seems.

I need to do more experimentation with my various clips and see if I can identify which properties of the MPEG2 clips that VS doesn't like as I now see that some mpegs inserted in the timeline can be successfully converted to MPEG4 as is your observation. Others however can't.

Maybe Ken will shed some light on why VS doesn't agree with the MPEG4 clip I sent him for editing in the timeline.

[Black Lab]

I have found acceptable work flow not using VS to encode but was simply trying to find out why it won't perform as I expect. Inquiring minds want to know. The more I learn the more questions I have it seems.

Since I have been editing video I have found that alternatives are much easier to find than the answers to why something doesn't work.

To me, the time saved is more valuable than the satisfaction of figuring out the problem. Plus, the banging of my head against the wall gives me a headache.

[metmot]

I have found acceptable work flow not using VS to encode but was simply trying to find out why it won't perform as I expect. Inquiring minds want to know. The more I learn the more questions I have it seems.

Since I have been editing video I have found that alternatives are much easier to find than the answers to why something doesn't work.

To me, the time saved is more valuable than the satisfaction of figuring out the problem. Plus, the banging of my head against the wall gives me a headache.

Amen Jeff!!!

[Ken Berry]

Thanks for sending me that sample file. But unfortunately, I have not been able to replicate your problem. For the record, I am running X2 Ultimate with the patch.

The sample inserted in the VS timeline with no problem. It gave the following properties:
Properties: H.264 Baseline Video Profile, 640x480, 29.97 fps, 1055 mbps
MPEG4 AAC Audio stereo 48khz, 192kbps

I ran a number of experiments with it, all rendering to various profiles of H.264 standard definition. All worked fine. First, I chose Share > Create Video File > MPEG-4 > iPhone H.264 (640 x 480) which used a speed of 30 fps, a bitrate of 2165 kbps and audio bitrate of 160 kbps (otherwise similar properties to the original).

Next, I Chose Custom and set mpeg-4/h.264 properties with speed 30 fps, bitrate of 1200 kbps and audio bitrate of 192 kbps but 44100 Hz instead of 48000 Hz.

Third, I used Custom and set the properties to be exactly the same as the original.

For good measure, I then used a piece of AVCHD mpeg-4 and rendered it to standard def mp4 using the same properties as your video.

As I say, all worked perfectly, and I was quite impressed with the final playback quality of all of them! Indeed, the AVCHD clip I used was one I have used in the past to show what I mean by bad shimmer in high def video when horizontally panning too fast. In the new standard def mpeg-4 I produced, nearly all of the shimmer has disappeared, yet the quality of the video is still quite good!

So as I say, I am unable to replicate your problem...

By the way, nice way to treat an old Volvo!!!

[metmot]

Thanks for sending me that sample file. But unfortunately, I have not been able to replicate your problem. For the record, I am running X2 Ultimate with the patch.

The sample inserted in the VS timeline with no problem. It gave the following properties:
Properties: H.264 Baseline Video Profile, 640x480, 29.97 fps, 1055 mbps
MPEG4 AAC Audio stereo 48khz, 192kbps

I ran a number of experiments with it, all rendering to various profiles of H.264 standard definition. All worked fine. First, I chose Share > Create Video File > MPEG-4 > iPhone H.264 (640 x 480) which used a speed of 30 fps, a bitrate of 2165 kbps and audio bitrate of 160 kbps (otherwise similar properties to the original).

Next, I Chose Custom and set mpeg-4/h.264 properties with speed 30 fps, bitrate of 1200 kbps and audio bitrate of 192 kbps but 44100 Hz instead of 48000 Hz.

Third, I used Custom and set the properties to be exactly the same as the original.

For good measure, I then used a piece of AVCHD mpeg-4 and rendered it to standard def mp4 using the same properties as your video.

As I say, all worked perfectly, and I was quite impressed with the final playback quality of all of them! Indeed, the AVCHD clip I used was one I have used in the past to show what I mean by bad shimmer in high def video when horizontally panning too fast. In the new standard def mpeg-4 I produced, nearly all of the shimmer has disappeared, yet the quality of the video is still quite good!

So as I say, I am unable to replicate your problem...

By the way, nice way to treat an old Volvo!!!

Hmmm....

I guess we both know what is gonna happen to my PC next......

Out comes the old yellow splitting mall and BOOM.

Thanks for checking it out Ken!

I think I will take Jeff's advice and keep on keeping on.

As the grief counselors say: Learn to live without answers