X2 Pro Patch and AVCHD

[Ken Berry]

Please see my Announcement at the top of this Forum regarding an update patch for X2 Pro: http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?p=175188#175188

I have installed it. It changes the version number I have to 12.0.96.1. So far, I have only experimented a little with its claimed ability to improve playback of AVCHD/H.264 video since that seems to be causing the most angst at the moment.

I have done 3 experiments so far: the first with AVCHD from a Panasonic S9; another with video from what I think is a Sony (though it might have been a JVC); and from the Canon website example of its new 24 Mbps AVCHD cameras. There is some good news and some bad.

First, the good news. It will be recalled from other threads that a major concern with edited AVCHD has been the very noticeable blips occurring mostly after inserted transitions in AVCHD. In all of my experiments, I took about 30 seconds of video from the various cameras (and in the case of the Canon 24 Mbps simply repeated the 10 second sample clip), and inserted randomly chosen F/X Transitions in several cuts made or where clips were joined. I then chose Share > Create Video File > Same as First clip (since I had an AVCHD, and no title or anything else at the beginning of the projects). In each case, it took about 2.5 times (and in the case of the S9 video, a little over 3x) real time to render a new AVCHD file.

In the case of the Sony (?) and Canon playback of the newly rendered video, I could detect NO blips at all, let alone associated with the transitions. I think this will be very good news if others find the same thing when they install the patch. I would stress here that I have previously used this same video in all three cases in the past, and had blips in rendered files in all 3 cases when I inserted transitions and rendered new files.

Unfortunately, part of the bad news is that there were still slight blips in the case of the Panasonic S9 footage following each transition.

The other bad news also affects the Panasonic. The Pansonic has been problematic in both VS11.5+ and X2 in even being able to play back the video in Clip Mode and particularly so in Project mode. With the patch, it certainly plays now absolutely smoothly on my Quad in Clip mode. Unfortunately. It is still very jerky and erratic in Project Mode. Worse, when the edited project was rendered, the resulting clip -- though it played smoothly in a way -- had not only the blips mentioned above, but various other artifacts and the occasional hang or jerk which had obviously been rendered into it rather than being a problem in playback.

More generally, I cannot say that I detected any improvement at all in playback in all three cases above in Project Mode. That remains very erratic. But as I say, the rendered new file plays absolutely smoothly with all edits and no transition blips in two of the three cases.

I hope others will now install the patch and report back here on their experiences. Hopefully, there will be good news at least for some...

[dalemccl]

I applied the patch to my copy of Pro X2 (the patch appears to be the same patch posted by a user in December -- Corel had provided a link to that user and he posted it here. The official patch file on the website is the same number of bytes as the one the user posted).

I still get the exact same blips after transitions with my Sony SR11 1920x1080i AVCHD clips. (I used fade-to-black). I used the same clips that I sent to Corel when I reported the blip problem last year. Comparing the rendered AVCHD output from then to rendered output with the patch applied, the blips are in exactly the same place - right at the end of each transition.

But I did notice two AVCHD related improvements with the patch. Not sure if this applies to everyone's system, but:

1. Previously, playback of individual AVCHD clips from the library or from the timeline OR playback of the project timeline in "project" mode always resulted in choppy playback, even with my 2.83 GHz Intel 9550 quad core. And using X2's generated proxy files only helped when playing the "project", but not when playing individual clips since the proxy files are only used when playing at the project level.

With this patch applied, the individual clips now play smoothly both from the library and from the timeline. But oddly, if I playback at the "project" level with these same unedited clips in the timeline, playback is very choppy - at least as bad as before and maybe worse. (this is with proxy files disabled). Strange that simply clicking on "project" instead of "clip" makes such a difference when the timeline contains just raw, unedited clips.

2. Previously when opening AVCHD clips from the library's "Load Video (the folder icon) , it took a while for X2 to respond after I selected multiple clip files in the open dialog. If I tried to open a too many clips at once, it took so long that Vista x64 sometimes thought the program was not responding. (Eventually it did respond though.) Then when it finally responded with the list of clips to open and I clicked OK, it took quite a while before the clips appeared in the library. Then once they were in the library, inserting them in the timeline was sluggish too. With the patch applied all this happens much faster. I find the new speed to be totally satisfactory.

So... progress has been made -- that is good. But, at least on my system with Sony SR11 clips, the transition glitch is still there (it previously happened with titles too, but I haven't tried titles with the patch yet. And the project level playback is still choppy. Hopefully Corel will address these in a future patch.

In case it matters, I had previously applied the November 2008 DirectX patch so my system is up to date as far as I know.

[GeoffW]

I purchased my copy of VideoStudio Pro X2 Upgrade on 18-Oct-2008 as a download. I have NOT applied the November patch noted above. My version number shows as 12.0.98.0 Pro which, numerically at least, looks to be more recent than the post-patch version number of 12.0.96.1 noted above. Makes you wonder about Corel's software release configuration management!

[dalemccl]

I purchased my copy of VideoStudio Pro X2 Upgrade on 18-Oct-2008 as a download. I have NOT applied the November patch noted above. My version number shows as 12.0.98.0 Pro which, numerically at least, looks to be more recent than the post-patch version number of 12.0.96.1 noted above. Makes you wonder about Corel's software release configuration management!

After applying the patch (the one Ken linked) my version is 12.0.98.1. I wonder if Ken's reference to 12.0.96.1 was just a typo.

[Ken Berry]

Well, I don't profess to understand Corel's version numbers either. My version number is most definitely 12.0.96.1 not 98. I have the full (i.e. not upgrade) version of X2 Ultimate installed. Even though X2 still shows the X2 Pro splash screen, I wonder if there is any difference in numbering caused by (a) it being the Ultimate edition and/or (b) it being a full and not upgrade version...?

But Dale, thank you for your own experiments and observations. Your first observation accords with my own. I have not tried the second experiment since I had not been aware it was a problem, and in fact do not load a lot of AVCHD files at once.

It's sad about the fact that the glitches are still there after transitions for you. They are most definitely not there in two out of the three experiments I conducted. And I have closely watched the resulting files very closely to detect anything strange and most especially anything resembling a blip around transitions. But nada... Even with the Panasonic video, the blips I detected were not identical to the previous form of them. Now it just appears as a microsecond freeze. Previously, they seemed to actually jump back a frame or two, then proceed again...

I should have added that I did not use two pass encode or SmartRender in any of the experiments. Nor did I use SmartProxy. My computer is also up to date with DirectX.

Hopefully others will also report back when they have had a chance to try it.

As a footnote, we knew that Corel was working on a patch. They sent us Administrators various versions which we could hand out for feedback. The one you are referring to may have been in that category. But given the date of the posted patch, it is likely that indeed Corel did indeed give that link to the final version. Only none of us realised it at the time!

[2Dogs]

I just installed X2 Pro from a full boxed version bought as a holiday present, and it showed as 12.0.98.0, then 12.0.98.1 after I applied the patch.

I was disappointed to see that the X2 install puts the UVS 12 Preloader, uvPL.exe in the startup folder. I feel Corel should give users a choice on that. I've always preferred to run my pc's lean and mean, and I don't like programs, such as Internet Explorer, for example, pre-loading and taking up resources just so that they appear to start up more quickly. Anyway, I removed the offending file from the startup folder with no ill effects as far as I can tell, though it does of course cause X2 to take a little longer to load.

[dalemccl]

Even with the Panasonic video, the blips I detected were not identical to the previous form of them. Now it just appears as a microsecond freeze. Previously, they seemed to actually jump back a frame or two, then proceed again...

I should have added that I did not use two pass encode or SmartRender in any of the experiments. Nor did I use SmartProxy. My computer is also up to date with DirectX.

Ken,
just to further define the "glitch" or "blip" I am referring to (before the patch and after), it is exactly as you describe it above (that you saw with the Panasonic before the patch). For example, in one clip taken of a busy highway, a truck is entering the scene from the left, moving to the right. Suddenly it appears to jump back slightly as if it went back a frame or two. This occurs about a second into the clip. It seems to be approx. where the transition ends. The blip is especially noticeable because the truck is moving fairly fast, so the jump backwards is very visible.

In clips with less motion or slower motion, the blip is more subtle. If there is no motion, the blip doesn't appear. I guess that makes sense. If it is repeating frames, but there is no movement in the scene, the blip would not be noticeable.

Like you, I also did not use 2-pass encode or SmartRender. I just used "Share", "Create Video File", and selected AVCHD.

[mitcs0ke]

I just installed X2 Pro from a full boxed version bought as a holiday present, and it showed as 12.0.98.0, then 12.0.98.1 after I applied the patch.

I just resently installed X2 Pro also from a full box version received
during the holidays and it shows as 12.0.98.0 and the box version
came directly from Corel.

I downloaded the patch but I think I will wait and see what happens
before I install it.

[Ron P.]

Checking my version before and after installing the update patch, it is the same as Ken's. So has Corel sneaked in a fix, that earlier purchasers, and possibly ESD versions do not have? Things that make you go hummmm

EDIT...
Well after installing the patch on my Vista machine, the version number is 12.0.98.1, so maybe the difference between the 96 and 98 is XP and Vista???

[dalemccl]

EDIT...
Well after installing the patch on my Vista machine, the version number is 12.0.98.1, so maybe the difference between the 96 and 98 is XP and Vista???

My 12.0.98.1 is on a Vista PC.

[tony62]

My machine is running XP and after the patch I get 12.0.98.1

I will give the patch a look today.

[Ken Berry]

And my computer has always run Vista Ultimate and it is still 12.0.96.1!!

Ron: I wonder whether you have X2 installed from the Pro package or from the Ultimate package as I did. The latter all came as one huge file, which is quite different, as far as I can see, from the 3 file package of the other versions. It would seem strange, though, that your original version number was the same as mine, but has now upgraded to 98.1 with the patch. I just reinstalled the patch and the version number remains 96.1... Not that it matters -- though it might if, as my experiments shows, the transition blip with AVCHD has gone in two of three cases; yet others trying with their own AVCHD still get the blip...

[Black Lab]

Ken, are you sure you don't need new glasses?

How many fingers am I holding up?

[Clevo]

Even with the Panasonic video, the blips I detected were not identical to the previous form of them. Now it just appears as a microsecond freeze. Previously, they seemed to actually jump back a frame or two, then proceed again...

I should have added that I did not use two pass encode or SmartRender in any of the experiments. Nor did I use SmartProxy. My computer is also up to date with DirectX.

Ken,
just to further define the "glitch" or "blip" I am referring to (before the patch and after), it is exactly as you describe it above (that you saw with the Panasonic before the patch). For example, in one clip taken of a busy highway, a truck is entering the scene from the left, moving to the right. Suddenly it appears to jump back slightly as if it went back a frame or two. This occurs about a second into the clip. It seems to be approx. where the transition ends. The blip is especially noticeable because the truck is moving fairly fast, so the jump backwards is very visible.

In clips with less motion or slower motion, the blip is more subtle. If there is no motion, the blip doesn't appear. I guess that makes sense. If it is repeating frames, but there is no movement in the scene, the blip would not be noticeable.

Like you, I also did not use 2-pass encode or SmartRender. I just used "Share", "Create Video File", and selected AVCHD.

That alsmost sounds like it's going back to the key frame in a GOP just before a transition

[dalemccl]

Even with the Panasonic video, the blips I detected were not identical to the previous form of them. Now it just appears as a microsecond freeze. Previously, they seemed to actually jump back a frame or two, then proceed again...

I should have added that I did not use two pass encode or SmartRender in any of the experiments. Nor did I use SmartProxy. My computer is also up to date with DirectX.

Ken,
just to further define the "glitch" or "blip" I am referring to (before the patch and after), it is exactly as you describe it above (that you saw with the Panasonic before the patch). For example, in one clip taken of a busy highway, a truck is entering the scene from the left, moving to the right. Suddenly it appears to jump back slightly as if it went back a frame or two. This occurs about a second into the clip. It seems to be approx. where the transition ends. The blip is especially noticeable because the truck is moving fairly fast, so the jump backwards is very visible.

In clips with less motion or slower motion, the blip is more subtle. If there is no motion, the blip doesn't appear. I guess that makes sense. If it is repeating frames, but there is no movement in the scene, the blip would not be noticeable.

Like you, I also did not use 2-pass encode or SmartRender. I just used "Share", "Create Video File", and selected AVCHD.

That alsmost sounds like it's going back to the key frame in a GOP just before a transition

Is there a way to tell whether a frame is a key frame? I don't think VS can, but maybe a freeware program? (I tried a Google search but didn't find anything).

Today I checked the video around the problem point by using the single frame forward and backward buttons in the time line transport controls so I could see what happens frame by frame. The problem occurs at the end of a transition. I found that at the point of the "blip" it jumps back one frame, then proceeds forward again. There seems to be 2 extra frames. The one it jumps back to, then a repeat of the frame it was on before it jumped back. Something like this: 1 2 3 4 5 4 5 6 7... (Note that these are not necessarily the frame numbers, just the pattern.)