Max video 1080i on a DVD

[Doctor Keo]

Hi, how many minutes of video, AVCHD 1080i, can you get on a single sided DVD and still have good quality playback?

[Ken Berry]

"Good quality playback" is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. It all depends on how demanding you are personally.

That being said, my first hybrid AVCHD disc managed to squeeze around 50 minutes of AVCHD on it in what some (many?) might call 'good' quality, but I had seen the original video before editing it, and did not think the result was anywhere near as good quality as the original. So I experimented, raised the bitrate (and thus the quality) used in the rendering process and finally got quality which to my eyes at least, looks the same quality as the original.

But by raising the bitrate, you also increase the size of the resulting file. This meant that I could only fit around 20 - 21 minutes of AVCHD on a single sided DVD. But I don't mind that, given that DVDs are so cheap these days, whereas Blu-Ray discs (and burners) are still so very much more expensive.

FWIW, my original settings were in effect the default chosen by VS, namely VBR max. 15000 kbps, though in effect this meant that the final level was 12000 kbps or less. By setting the bitrate to around 17000 kbps, I got the quality I liked -- and this also happened to match the bitrate used in the original AVCHD I was editing (max 16800 kbps).

It also depends which camera you are using. Some have a bitrate which is only around 15000 kbps max anyway with some of the earlier ones only being around 12000 kbps. So using that bitrate should give you as good quality as the original, and allow 50 minutes of video on a DVD. But many of the more recent AVCHD cameras use higher bitrates of 16800, 18000 and now even the new upper limit of 24000 kbps. So If you have one of these, you should try to ensure that the bitrate you use in burning your hybrid disc matches the original. As I said, I used 16800 or 17000 and matched the original quality. If you use a higher bitrate than that to match the original bitrate, you will get good quality, but will be able to fit correspondingly *less* video on a DVD.

[Doctor Keo]

Thanks for your reply. Sadly, I'm unable to improve the AVCHD quality. My camera is a Panasonic SD9, and on checking its max bit rate is 17000. I've tried importing 2 minutes of AVCHS video and update the quality settings to 100% and the bit rate to 17000. Still I'm experiencing the picture breaking up. I¡¦ve downloaded and installed the latest patch from Corel. I¡¦ve played the source video directly from the camera to the TV ¡V No break up. (Although, played 576i, the TV would not accept 1080i though my component lead) I¡¦ve also burnt the same video to DVD as AVCHD using Nero 8 again setting the bit rate to 17000 ¡V This is far better than the VS DVD but still not perfect. I get the same picture break up when I play the source video on my computer via Nero Show Time 4 ¡V This I had put down to the lack of power on my computer.
Computer Packard Bell AMD 64 X2 bit 3800+ 2.0 GHz running Vista Home Premium 32 bit 4 gig ram ¡V Nvidia 8500GT

[tony62]

Ken:

But many of the more recent AVCHD cameras use higher bitrates of 16800, 18000 and now even the new upper limit of 24000 kbps.

One of my students is thinking of buying one of these new AVCHD cameras that record at 24000 kbps. He asked me how VS Pro would handle the file sizes for editing.
My camera has a bite rate of 15000 and I still have a problem editing even with my latest upgrade to Quad Core (see my system). Not sure what to answer his question. Anyone got an answer. His system is the same as mine. Maybe ad some more ram etc. what else.

[2Dogs]

One of my students is thinking of buying one of these new AVCHD cameras that record at 24000 kbps. He asked me how VS Pro would handle the file sizes for editing.

The file sizes are not the issue at all - even with the highest video bitrates, they're only comparable to standard definition DV avi files for any given length.

There are two problems. First of all, you need a reasonably powerful pc to get a workable editing experience. Any quad core should be OK, and if you have to have all the Vista aero effects, 4Gb of RAM would be sensible, though 2Gb should do. Since you are using XP Pro, 2GB is fine. 32 bit versions of Windows have trouble using more than 3GB of RAM anyway, without elaborate workarounds.

Secondly, and more significantly, however, VS cannot properly edit footage from certain camcorders, notably the Canon HF10, HF11, HF100 and any later models. It produces glitches at transitions and cuts. That problem is unrelated to the speed of the pc, and no amount of cpu power or RAM will make any difference. Users are just waiting/hoping for a patch from Corel/Ulead.

My camera has a bite rate of 15000 and I still have a problem editing even with my latest upgrade to Quad Core (see my system). Not sure what to answer his question. Anyone got an answer. His system is the same as mine. Maybe ad some more ram etc. what else.

I would be very interested to know if you experience any difference if you try editing clips recorded at a lower bitrate. Most camcorders allow you to record at several different settings.

For example, the Canon HG10 allows recording at 15, 9, 7 and 5Mbps. The Canon HF11 can record at 24, 17, 12, 7 and 5Mbps.

I suspect the video bitrate won't make much difference, since the clips have to be decompressed to preview them. Are you using Smart Proxy files? Although they take time to generate, you should then get no preview problems.

[Ken Berry]

Apart from 2Dogs' comprehensive reply, from personal experience with my own Quad 6600, I have no trouble editing most AVCHD in terms of outputting playable video. I too experience those blips mentioned by 2Dogs, and I am afraid it's not just from the Canon range that he referred to. At the very least, it also happens with Panasonic cameras, and I would not be surprised it also happened with Sony and JVC ones as well. As he said, we are all waiting for a patch.

You will note that I said 'most AVCHD'. Video from the Panasonic S9 is almost impossible to play in its native format in VS (11.5+ and X2) and I don't think anyone has found a cure for that -- nor am I sure which other programs might do so, though I managed to produce a very good quality conversion of its AVCHD to HDV format using Magix.

I also cannot play output from the new Canon 24 Mbps models in VS smoothly -- at least the sample file on the Canon website. I suspect that VS code was written before the international AVCHD standard maximum bitrate was raised from 18 Mbps to 24 Mbps and thus cannot properly recognise its flags...

In all of my successful editing of AVCHD in its native format (i.e without using SmartProxy), I also have to make a lot of concessions in the preview performance of VS. Inevitably, a preview will become a bit jerky -- usually sooner rather than later. However, I now anticipate this and as long as I can see a rough simulation of my edits, I am happy enough.

But overall, while AVCHD is obviously the wave of the future, the various camera manufacturers have still not come to some sort of accord on the exact standards which should apply to it. And the software manufacturers as a result are going to always have problems producing a program that handle the variations of the format that currently exist ... and alas, are likely to emerge in the near future...

[Doctor Keo]

Reading through the posts - My understanding is that unless Corel patches VS I will not be able produce a watchable DVD /AVCHD video from my Panasonic SD9 (None I've produced so far are watchable!). Is that correct?

[Ken Berry]

It depends what you can accept as 'watchable'. For instance, if you did not use transitions and could thus avoid the blips, it would be watchable... But essentially, no, I think that VS still has some way to go with both editing and playing AVCHD.

On the other hand, I don't have those problems with my HDV output, including when I edit it with transitions, titles etc, then convert it to an AVCHD hybrid disc.

You might want to look at the thread from yesterday about Cineform, though. I think that shows promise. Unfortunately, it is another expensive thing you would have to buy.

[Doctor Keo]

I have managed to produce a fairly good AVCHD, sadly not with VS I've purchased - Pinnacle V12. I'm still trying with VS (as I've shelled out good money for it!) and have emailed Corel, 4 days to get 'please telephone' but no telephone number. Does anyone have the UK tech support telephone number? By contrast Pinnacle's tech support replied the same day!

[Ron P.]

Here you go...
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/ ... 7273748085..

They charge $15 per call, or you can purchase a Support Package, starting as low as $499 for a package of 5 support incidents (That's not 4.99). However an incident is until the issue is resolved. That could be 1 call or several. Oh, and one more "gotcha"... They are yearly based. So I guess if your incident has not been resolved at the end of your year, you may need to purchase more. Gotta make money somehow huh...

[Doctor Keo]

Thanks for the info - Is there is UK phone support?

[Ron P.]

Corel has a web page with a table of all the telephone numbers around the world. I would provide a link to it, however Corel's URL is too long, and will not work pasting here in the forums.

You can go to Corel's Knowledge Base, and just type in phone numbers to search for. Most of the time, it is the first answer in the list.

Here's a screen shot of that page...

Click on the image to see a larger version. You may also have to click on image in the web page the thumbnail leads to, to enlarge it more..