Having just bought a Canon HV30, I am now learning about HD video and have seen the term 'Hybrid Disc' on several topics. As I don't have a Blue Ray burner or player, I will need to make DVD's and am hoping to get better quality video onto a disc than was possible with my previous camera.
I have searched for an explanation of 'Hybrid Disc' but haven't found a definitive answer. Can someone please explain exactly what this means?
Thanks!
"Hybrid Disc"
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Ken Berry
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As with a hybrid of anything, a hybrid disc combines the elements of two different systems: first, it is a standard DVD disc (single or dual layer). Next, it contains AVCHD high definition video in its original high definition form. It is burned by selecting Share > Create Disc > AVCHD and inserting high definition video (either HDV or AVCHD) in the burning timeline, and a standard DVD in your burner drive.
Finally, such discs do not contain the standard definition video DVD tree (Audio_TS and Video_TS folders with .vob, .bup and .ifo files) but a Blu-Ray folder structure (BDMV folder and sub-folders with the video in a STREAM sub-folder). And given that, such discs will ONLY play on a Blu-Ray rated player, either stand-alone (which includes the Sony PlayStation 3 which is what I use), or else a Blu-Ray rated software player.
Your camera of course uses HDV as its format. I have a HV20. As noted above, I edit my HDV, but don't first convert this to AVCHD. Instead, going against what I (and many others) recommend for standard definition video, I insert my edited HDV in the burning timeline. I do this because I get more flexibility with the properties I can select for the AVCHD rendering which is done as part of the burning process, than selecting from either of the two defaults for AVCHD in the editing module.
The results are excellent. I use a bitrate of 17 Mbps which allows me to fit only around 20 minutes of AVCHD on a single layer DVD. But it plays beautifully on my PS3 which I have networked to my HDTV.
Finally, such discs do not contain the standard definition video DVD tree (Audio_TS and Video_TS folders with .vob, .bup and .ifo files) but a Blu-Ray folder structure (BDMV folder and sub-folders with the video in a STREAM sub-folder). And given that, such discs will ONLY play on a Blu-Ray rated player, either stand-alone (which includes the Sony PlayStation 3 which is what I use), or else a Blu-Ray rated software player.
Your camera of course uses HDV as its format. I have a HV20. As noted above, I edit my HDV, but don't first convert this to AVCHD. Instead, going against what I (and many others) recommend for standard definition video, I insert my edited HDV in the burning timeline. I do this because I get more flexibility with the properties I can select for the AVCHD rendering which is done as part of the burning process, than selecting from either of the two defaults for AVCHD in the editing module.
The results are excellent. I use a bitrate of 17 Mbps which allows me to fit only around 20 minutes of AVCHD on a single layer DVD. But it plays beautifully on my PS3 which I have networked to my HDTV.
Ken Berry
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Ormond Williams
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Ken Berry
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Nothing really special... For my standard def DVDs from HDV originals, I download and edit in HDV format, and only then convert it to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 (noting that it is upper field first). I find this gives me (marginally) better quality than downconverting the HDV in the camera to standard def DV, then editing and converting. But nothing more than that. All other standard rules apply.
Ken Berry
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richmg821
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Ken,
I now have the Canon HF100; my first AVCHD camcorder, was the Panasonic HDC-SD1; which I'm now editing my clips from it; to a AVCHD
disc. I had few problems, editing them, to DVD's, using VS11. I bought VS12; because I liked, the options; on how it makes AVCHD's.
Before I added the latest patch, (hard to find). I had this problem, and don't know if it still happens.
1- Using Ulead 12 (X2); If I made & edited a video, more than 54 minutes; it would stop rendering about 53 minutes; 94%. 50 minutes or under, is not a problem; saving as a AVCHD file. I had to split project, into 2 video files. And then add the two files together, to put the full video on a AVCHD disc. Hardrive space is plentyful. A finished 50 minute file is only about 3GB. This is not a problem, I can live with this.
2- This is the problem I have now. If I take two clips, and put on a timeline, with or without, special effects in between. Save as a AVCHD file,
set my bitrate to 15000 or higher, The first clip, renders fast; and looks great (avg of 12000); when it reaches the second clip, rendering slows down, and the video playback avg drops to 6-8kbps, at that point in the video; and the MPG4 video shows pixels again. I tried rendering a MPG2 video, saw rates up to 19K; but it's not as good as MPG4; looks terrible. Can anything be done; to keep the set rate from changing on me. Also, no matter what bitrate, I set above the default 11800; I get a good video; the file size, is the same, playback avg. is the same; doesn't decrease or increase.
Plus, using the two pass coding, doesnot make my videos look better. It makes the file smaller, and reduces the bitrate. I see more pixeling.
Thanks in advance Ken; or anyone. What I always like with video editing; you don't spend hours with problems; you spend days.
I now have the Canon HF100; my first AVCHD camcorder, was the Panasonic HDC-SD1; which I'm now editing my clips from it; to a AVCHD
disc. I had few problems, editing them, to DVD's, using VS11. I bought VS12; because I liked, the options; on how it makes AVCHD's.
Before I added the latest patch, (hard to find). I had this problem, and don't know if it still happens.
1- Using Ulead 12 (X2); If I made & edited a video, more than 54 minutes; it would stop rendering about 53 minutes; 94%. 50 minutes or under, is not a problem; saving as a AVCHD file. I had to split project, into 2 video files. And then add the two files together, to put the full video on a AVCHD disc. Hardrive space is plentyful. A finished 50 minute file is only about 3GB. This is not a problem, I can live with this.
2- This is the problem I have now. If I take two clips, and put on a timeline, with or without, special effects in between. Save as a AVCHD file,
set my bitrate to 15000 or higher, The first clip, renders fast; and looks great (avg of 12000); when it reaches the second clip, rendering slows down, and the video playback avg drops to 6-8kbps, at that point in the video; and the MPG4 video shows pixels again. I tried rendering a MPG2 video, saw rates up to 19K; but it's not as good as MPG4; looks terrible. Can anything be done; to keep the set rate from changing on me. Also, no matter what bitrate, I set above the default 11800; I get a good video; the file size, is the same, playback avg. is the same; doesn't decrease or increase.
Plus, using the two pass coding, doesnot make my videos look better. It makes the file smaller, and reduces the bitrate. I see more pixeling.
Thanks in advance Ken; or anyone. What I always like with video editing; you don't spend hours with problems; you spend days.
Hi,
Try using CBR (Constant Bit Rate). This is the thread with all the details and settings:
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... 601c229b88
Przemek
Try using CBR (Constant Bit Rate). This is the thread with all the details and settings:
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... 601c229b88
Przemek
HF100, VS X2
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richmg821
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CBR
Thanks for the link; Przemek. Never typed in my own pernament settings to save before. I just adjusted changed the pulldown boxes.
Tried that short clip using 18k and then 15k CBR. Pixeling not really noticable.
One problem though. I went down to 9,000 CBR didn't like it. Then I came all the way back to 18000; in steps of 12000, 14000, 15000. The resulting videos, all looked terrible, as if they stayed at 9000. And yes; I checked my final output settings before burning. I re-booted; tried at 12000 CBR; it looked okay again. I was trying to get my 1:06 video; on to a AVCHD disc. I then had to edit the video to 48 minutes, then used 12000 CBR. I started the burn; when I left this morning; the top bar, was at 3%; I thought that was normal for some dumb reason (for after about 6 hours)? After I came home from work (+9 hrs), still at 3%. No HD light activity; program running; not crashed (that's why I though it was okay, this morning). Re-booted; loaded edited videos. Had to do menu over; but saved it, this time by closing. Closed X2, restarted CPU. Used burn to disc again; will have to wait about 10+ hours, just to see if it's working. It looks like it might be finally rendering; 3% and 6%; now on the bottom. This had got to be the buggiest Ulead video program used. I used the same AVCHD videos, to make regular DVD's; with vs11; and didn't have any problems.
And like others complained about, and I have seen with this editing program; I have some jerky or jumping transistions. Maybe it's the AVCHD to AVCHD; because with VS11, and AVCHD to DVD, I didn't see; a not smooth transistion. Plus in a few spots, before the patch, video came out of sync, with audio.
Tried that short clip using 18k and then 15k CBR. Pixeling not really noticable.
One problem though. I went down to 9,000 CBR didn't like it. Then I came all the way back to 18000; in steps of 12000, 14000, 15000. The resulting videos, all looked terrible, as if they stayed at 9000. And yes; I checked my final output settings before burning. I re-booted; tried at 12000 CBR; it looked okay again. I was trying to get my 1:06 video; on to a AVCHD disc. I then had to edit the video to 48 minutes, then used 12000 CBR. I started the burn; when I left this morning; the top bar, was at 3%; I thought that was normal for some dumb reason (for after about 6 hours)? After I came home from work (+9 hrs), still at 3%. No HD light activity; program running; not crashed (that's why I though it was okay, this morning). Re-booted; loaded edited videos. Had to do menu over; but saved it, this time by closing. Closed X2, restarted CPU. Used burn to disc again; will have to wait about 10+ hours, just to see if it's working. It looks like it might be finally rendering; 3% and 6%; now on the bottom. This had got to be the buggiest Ulead video program used. I used the same AVCHD videos, to make regular DVD's; with vs11; and didn't have any problems.
And like others complained about, and I have seen with this editing program; I have some jerky or jumping transistions. Maybe it's the AVCHD to AVCHD; because with VS11, and AVCHD to DVD, I didn't see; a not smooth transistion. Plus in a few spots, before the patch, video came out of sync, with audio.
HI
Try this:
1. Import the clips straight to the timeline
2. Right-click on one clip - note the properties of the clip.
3. Go to SHARE - output as an AVCHD disk - change the properties of the output file to exactly the same as those of your clip and Burn.
With the same project - go to SHARE - Create a FILE (AVCHD) and tick SAME AS THE FIRST CLIP and record the file.
Now, compare the two.
If you have problems and rendering stops, then it might mean that the video clip is corrupted (it can still play ok, but there might be sth wrong with it). Try different clips and check.
Just in case - If your camera is NTSC and the project is PAL then you will see small degradation in quality (and vice versa). I presume that your camera is NTSC, so just make sure that the project is also NTSC.
regards,
Try this:
1. Import the clips straight to the timeline
2. Right-click on one clip - note the properties of the clip.
3. Go to SHARE - output as an AVCHD disk - change the properties of the output file to exactly the same as those of your clip and Burn.
With the same project - go to SHARE - Create a FILE (AVCHD) and tick SAME AS THE FIRST CLIP and record the file.
Now, compare the two.
If you have problems and rendering stops, then it might mean that the video clip is corrupted (it can still play ok, but there might be sth wrong with it). Try different clips and check.
Just in case - If your camera is NTSC and the project is PAL then you will see small degradation in quality (and vice versa). I presume that your camera is NTSC, so just make sure that the project is also NTSC.
regards,
HF100, VS X2
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richmg821
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Przemek,
Thanks, for all the help. I go way back to ($1000) 1X DVD burners. Ulead 5 was my second video editing program. I NEVER, had a video editing problem, that wasn't fixed by a patch... Never!!!
I left Ulead, after they said they were not going to implement 5.1 sound; and made two mistakes. 1- I bought the rival "P" software, with 5.1 sound. 2- The second lesson I learned; never buy a video editing software, without a free trial. It took me 3, months to make a DVD; with a working menu. I never seen so many patches, and the patches made it worst, at first. You then had to upgrade, your video card.
My videos are not corrupted, I don't know if you have a video program, that shows the playback rate, audio type etc. Take a clip, maybe 30 seconds. Paste it twice, on the timeline. Share it, it makes a HD mpg file.
Do not burn the DVD. Watch the screen. You will see it will render the first half; up to 50% fast. Then it slows down, it never stopped rendering. I never said it did. When you play it back, watch the bitrate. 11- 12 kbps; when the second one plays, same video clip; 5- 8 kps. For a better example... Take just that one clip. If you play it back the whole clip will be 11- 12 kbps. But.. Put in title, something simple even like; "Hello"; in the middle. Watch the playback 11-12 kbps, until you see the "Hello", then after the "Hello" fades, not back to 11-12 kbs, It drops to 5-8kbps. I know software problems.
Update.. Came home today after trying, direct burning using method you mentioned. Making my own templates and CBR. Turned on screen; "Failed to read data". Before I closed, I searched for a temp video file. Found it, (MPG) along with some AC3 files. Played file, worried about seperate AC3 files. But the MPG video; played with the 5.1 surround; video shows only up to 10 kbps but looks good on computer. Went to: "Share video"; again,
"make disc". But, instead of using the timeline project (which will take hours to render again). I deleted the timeline video compilation, and used the MPG file, that was placed into the temporary folder, from last time, before it failed. I put in another blank DVD, because it said the other DVD wasn't empty. I see where it started to burn. I changed the burning setting to 12Xl instead of max. These are pretty expensive DVD's, with the Lighscribe. (Which I didn't like, perfer glossy watershed DVD's). In about 10 minutes, the dreaded; "failed to read popped up". I know this is more a burner problem, than the program now. I replaced this DVD, with my more expensive Taiyo Yuden. I changed the settings to 12X (disc 16x); but noticed the buffer overun, box not checked now. Checked the box. About 15 minutes ago.. "Operation complete". After I ship my DVD's orders, I'm going to sit down and watch the video, and make my evaluation. And if I like it, I'm gonna try the 1 hour version, and use that method I just did, use the temp files, until the bug is fixed. Thanks, I'll let you know how it looks.
Thanks, for all the help. I go way back to ($1000) 1X DVD burners. Ulead 5 was my second video editing program. I NEVER, had a video editing problem, that wasn't fixed by a patch... Never!!!
I left Ulead, after they said they were not going to implement 5.1 sound; and made two mistakes. 1- I bought the rival "P" software, with 5.1 sound. 2- The second lesson I learned; never buy a video editing software, without a free trial. It took me 3, months to make a DVD; with a working menu. I never seen so many patches, and the patches made it worst, at first. You then had to upgrade, your video card.
My videos are not corrupted, I don't know if you have a video program, that shows the playback rate, audio type etc. Take a clip, maybe 30 seconds. Paste it twice, on the timeline. Share it, it makes a HD mpg file.
Do not burn the DVD. Watch the screen. You will see it will render the first half; up to 50% fast. Then it slows down, it never stopped rendering. I never said it did. When you play it back, watch the bitrate. 11- 12 kbps; when the second one plays, same video clip; 5- 8 kps. For a better example... Take just that one clip. If you play it back the whole clip will be 11- 12 kbps. But.. Put in title, something simple even like; "Hello"; in the middle. Watch the playback 11-12 kbps, until you see the "Hello", then after the "Hello" fades, not back to 11-12 kbs, It drops to 5-8kbps. I know software problems.
Update.. Came home today after trying, direct burning using method you mentioned. Making my own templates and CBR. Turned on screen; "Failed to read data". Before I closed, I searched for a temp video file. Found it, (MPG) along with some AC3 files. Played file, worried about seperate AC3 files. But the MPG video; played with the 5.1 surround; video shows only up to 10 kbps but looks good on computer. Went to: "Share video"; again,
"make disc". But, instead of using the timeline project (which will take hours to render again). I deleted the timeline video compilation, and used the MPG file, that was placed into the temporary folder, from last time, before it failed. I put in another blank DVD, because it said the other DVD wasn't empty. I see where it started to burn. I changed the burning setting to 12Xl instead of max. These are pretty expensive DVD's, with the Lighscribe. (Which I didn't like, perfer glossy watershed DVD's). In about 10 minutes, the dreaded; "failed to read popped up". I know this is more a burner problem, than the program now. I replaced this DVD, with my more expensive Taiyo Yuden. I changed the settings to 12X (disc 16x); but noticed the buffer overun, box not checked now. Checked the box. About 15 minutes ago.. "Operation complete". After I ship my DVD's orders, I'm going to sit down and watch the video, and make my evaluation. And if I like it, I'm gonna try the 1 hour version, and use that method I just did, use the temp files, until the bug is fixed. Thanks, I'll let you know how it looks.
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richmg821
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 5:59 am
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- sound_card: Delta 1010LT
- Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3 TB
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- Location: NYC, USA
Przemek,
When I went in to playback my newly burnt DVD; I took it out the burner, and instead of the disk being full. It was about 1/3 burned (from the center hub); a big blank space, and maybe a some more burning 1/4 from the edge. Knew right away, this was going to be a problem. It was, wouldn't read in my Blu-Ray player. Next, I removed my DVD burner from this computer, put it in that computer; ran that temp .mpg file as before. Disc surface, had fully burned, no banding, it looked great.
Next step, ordered new mother board, CPU (Quad 3.0 AMD); and will put back my Blu-Ray burner back in there, which I thought went bad, a few months ago. But it was the M/B. For some reason, the SATA outputs stopped working, when burning anything.
I don't know; if it is a Corel thing, to do it or not. But instead of just a; "failed to read", a "failed to read burning source"; could narrow down to what failed, for the not so computer sharp customers. I thought it meant, from the HD. Also let known, that there is a temp .mpg file saved, (with the 5.1, and all the effects); in case of a long rendering failure. Which I will be using; supposibly @ 18bps CBR. And will burn it to the disc at the VBR, that will fit the DVD. I'm not doing anything more, until the new MB, CPU arrives. For those out there, that burn direct to disc from timeline, who get errors or stops, in final rendering to the disk. Your burner might be the problem. I'm sure it burns a small portion, in the very beginning; because all my disc, were un-useable, when I got a failure, before the main burning began; and I can see, burn data around the hub. Now if that data is unreadble, everything might stop.
When I went in to playback my newly burnt DVD; I took it out the burner, and instead of the disk being full. It was about 1/3 burned (from the center hub); a big blank space, and maybe a some more burning 1/4 from the edge. Knew right away, this was going to be a problem. It was, wouldn't read in my Blu-Ray player. Next, I removed my DVD burner from this computer, put it in that computer; ran that temp .mpg file as before. Disc surface, had fully burned, no banding, it looked great.
Next step, ordered new mother board, CPU (Quad 3.0 AMD); and will put back my Blu-Ray burner back in there, which I thought went bad, a few months ago. But it was the M/B. For some reason, the SATA outputs stopped working, when burning anything.
I don't know; if it is a Corel thing, to do it or not. But instead of just a; "failed to read", a "failed to read burning source"; could narrow down to what failed, for the not so computer sharp customers. I thought it meant, from the HD. Also let known, that there is a temp .mpg file saved, (with the 5.1, and all the effects); in case of a long rendering failure. Which I will be using; supposibly @ 18bps CBR. And will burn it to the disc at the VBR, that will fit the DVD. I'm not doing anything more, until the new MB, CPU arrives. For those out there, that burn direct to disc from timeline, who get errors or stops, in final rendering to the disk. Your burner might be the problem. I'm sure it burns a small portion, in the very beginning; because all my disc, were un-useable, when I got a failure, before the main burning began; and I can see, burn data around the hub. Now if that data is unreadble, everything might stop.