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Hi again. Your English is very good.

bankroot wrote: my question is why ?
have you ever seen a movie with plenty of transitions or PIP's ?

I'm not talking about transitions, I'm talking about very basic cutting. I start the camera rolling, and often times the event I'm hoping to capture doesn't occur exactly when I expected it would, or else it runs on longer than I expected it to. I try to be disciplined about keeping shots short and concise, but I'm not a professional videographer and I don't often plan my shots. I'm shooting home videos, and my subjects (e.g., my kids) don't always cooperate Most of the time, I like to trim the ends off some of the raw clips before using them. In such situations, it's nice to have something like VS that will only recompress the edges (and only if the cut lands in the middle of a GoP). That was the whole reason I bought VS. As mentioned above, my plan was to use VS only to cut my main video program, then do all the rest with other software. I'm coming from years of work in DV using Premiere, but the prospect of recompressing GoP-type video when it's already in the right format is profoundly irritating to me. Unfortunately, Premiere is just not aimed at the consumer segment where editing such video is commonplace, so it does a horrible job of dealing with it (where it deals with it at all!).

I didn't get a chance to try TsMuxer last night. Maybe tonight. Unless Encore's problem with HDMV import comes from some artifact of VS's rendering, however, I'm not too hopeful that it will fix me. Even less hopeful if I have to do some trimming in VS before using TsMuxer. And if it doesn't fix me, then I've got no reason to use it. VS is doing what I want. It would seem as though Encore is just being finicky/buggy.

Cheers,
Aaron

If you wanna do only trimming, I strongly suggest to use the soft included in pack with your camcorder.
It is working without any reencoding (as for trimming and saving clips).

After this, you can join those clips in one block in TsMuxer (representing one chapter for instance).

Did you try to do it ?

The included software has no provisions for editing video whatsoever; never buy Sony gear for the software! They don't include Vegas with their camcorders, I'm afraid... The software you get with the HDR-CX12 can't even *play* AVCHD very well.

The TsMuxer solution didn't help either, I'm afraid. It was worth trying, though! (Thanks for that suggestion!) Encore won't import a TS with more than two audio channels in the audio stream, which means that I have to batch convert all of my AVCHD clips to sereo AC3 or PCM before using TsMuxer to glue them together (used VS for this). In the end, I encounter the same crash in Encore unless the TS is < 2Gb or so. Encore has no problem with standalone .AC3 files having more than two channels, but again, doing that leads me to terrible audio/video sync issues.

Maybe I just need to do dip-to-black transitions at 2Gb intervals so that the pauses between streams on the Blu-ray aren't noticed, then break up all my programs into 15-20min intervals (it'll look as though there used to be TV commercials).

Well! Perhaps we'll see a patch for this in the next few weeks...

Cheers,
Aaron

jaholmes wrote: Well! Perhaps we'll see a patch for this in the next few weeks...
Cheers,
Aaron

You must be forgetting this is Corel.... I would think they would have released at least one patch by now. However the closer it gets to the anniversary of the version, the more likely it is just going to be part of the next version....

vidoman wrote: You must be forgetting this is Corel....

I was talking about Adobe, actually. VideoStudio is [probably] doing the right thing here. I just can't import its output into Encore without causing Encore to crash. But then Encore is altogether crashy, and crashes on me all the time, even when I'm not importing HDMV from VS. CS4 was a rushed release, I'm convinced. They should have waited a few more months. Fortunately, since returning to the Macintosh platform and trying to compete with Final Cut, Adobe's been better about putting out patches.

Anyway, this Adobe business is mostly OT. Sorry.

When VS X3 comes out, I sure hope it's addressed the lack of H.264 support on Blu-ray discs. That's just plain absurd, given that if you choose to output a *file* you are able to produce such video. This is also a growing consumer scenario that VS seems to promise a solution for, then doesn't deliver. Alas, the fact that MPEG-2 is the only thing you can put on Blu-ray using VS is not prominently featured anywhere in the documentation. What good is Smart Render if, to get the output onto a DVD or Blu-ray, you're forced to transcode anyway? GRRRRR!!! At least I'd have had a stop-gap in place here, but no. <sigh>

Cheers,
Aaron

jaholmes wrote:The included software has no provisions for editing video whatsoever; never buy Sony gear for the software! They don't include Vegas with their camcorders, I'm afraid... The software you get with the HDR-CX12 can't even *play* AVCHD very well.

Hmmmm.
Frankly speaking I have heard about many NLE's included in packs with camcorders (HD Writer, Pixela, PMB), never heard about any problems with trimming or playing . Maybe your PC is under specification ?

My Pixela Image Mixer is absolutely crap software, but I have never had any problem with trimming or playing, additionaly it is only one software, which properly show date and time of recording (even the clip is changing by editing or recovering)


As for VS Pro X2 patch ... forget about it.
For me Video Studio has finished since was taken by Corel.
This soft in my opinion will not be developed anymore

bankroot wrote:.

Trade off is: would you like to have the best picture quality (original clips) and small files (AVCHD) or reencoding of your original clips ?
In my opinion all of your fantassies you can put into menu and show how are you creative.
The movie should be free of any edition gadgets.

Are you kidding me?

It's a GREAT deal of fun in creating an entertaining video! I just finished a family travel video where you see an Indiana Jones style map with an animated plane flies over an old tattered map of the Country over layed onto the actual travel part of the video. Then there are the 3D titling effects, voice-overs.... etc

Frankly, I can't think of anything more boring than plopping raw unedited video on a disk and calling it at that.

bankroot wrote: Hmmmm.
Frankly speaking I have heard about many NLE's included in packs with camcorders (HD Writer, Pixela, PMB), never heard about any problems with trimming or playing . Maybe your PC is under specification ?

Let me clear up this misconception, then: PMB is NOT an NLE. It is, first and foremost, a tool for backing up and organizing your video files. It does have the ability to make DVDs and AVCHD discs, yes. To do this, you choose to create a disc, then you mark your clips using checkboxes, then you click "Go". Well, I suppose the fact that you can checkmark the video clips in any order qualifies as "Non-Linear," heheheh ... ;->

PMB has the ability to play AVCHD clips... one at a time. WOW. It also cannot be maximized to full screen without all of the menus, buttons, and window edges showing. That is what I mean when I say that it doesn't play AVCHD very well. Actually, there is another applicaiton included with the camera called "Player for AVCHD". This seemed promising, until I realized that it would only play video when the camera was actually attached to the computer; you cannot point it at a folder full of clips. AVCHD playback using Windows Media Player is smooth, but also has trouble playing groups of clips, since it doesn't by default recognize the .m2ts file extension. Well, whatever. Again, my intent is to create discs, so I haven't wrestled with these tangental issues much.

Hopefully that explanation helped Again, the Sony software included with their cameras is next to useless. I knew this going in, so I'm not complaining, really. My intent was to keep using Premiere, however the promised AVCHD support in CS4 is next to useless also, so...

neonbob wrote: Are you kidding me?

It's a GREAT deal of fun in creating an entertaining video! I just finished a family travel video where you see an Indiana Jones style map with an animated plane flies over an old tattered map of the Country over layed onto the actual travel part of the video. Then there are the 3D titling effects, voice-overs.... etc

Hilarious. I did the same thing once (the Jones-style map). I think bankroot was talking about the main video program, however. Not leaders, motion menus, etc., but the bulk of the video. And I'd agree with him there. Except for Star Wars, you really never see transitions used all over the place in the main program. I find them to be annoying unless the main program is actually more of a slide show without a lot of motion. A fade-to-black before the credits roll is fine, too.

Cheers,
Aaron

jaholmes wrote: Hopefully that explanation helped

sorry Aaron, but did not.
how do you comment the followed link:
Link removed by Admin, as violated forum policy
sorry, I cannot properly include url
Did you try Referal to competitor's program removed by Admin (seems to me that you prefer commercial software) ?

neonbob wrote: Are you kidding me?

It's a GREAT deal of fun in creating an entertaining video! I just finished a family travel video where you see an Indiana Jones style map with an animated plane flies over an old tattered map of the Country over layed onto the actual travel part of the video. Then there are the 3D titling effects, voice-overs.... etc

There is no point to kicking up a fuss about it. Your choice (I wrote trade off). Personally I prefer quality and simplicity against reencoding and gadgets.
Any kind of animation is a beautiful part of menu (motion menu).
Titles and subtitles is needed only in credit list or chapter blocks (or translation from another language - very rare situation).
Audio (music and/or commentary) you can make SEPARATELY and add in TsMuxer without any reencoding. Audio in my opinion is more, more important (especially background music) than any transitions, PiP's or 3D effects. I saw many weddings productions from professional studios, after watching many of them I had a headache from plenty of effects.

However, everyone is free in his view of the best production

neonbob wrote:Frankly, I can't think of anything more boring than plopping raw unedited video on a disk and calling it at that.

Come off it ! Who talked about "unedited" video ? Moreover Brazilian novels are more boring.

bankroot wrote: sorry Aaron, but did not.
how do you comment the followed link:
Link removed by Admin, as violated forum policy
sorry, I cannot properly include url
Did you try Referal to competitor's program removed by Admin (seems to me that you prefer commercial software) ?

I see you are correct; it can trim the ends. That would be very cool if it didn't recompress the whole clip just like Premiere does So, we're back to the same issue: VS X2 can cut without recompressing, but Encore barfs on the output. Regarding commercial software: I'm trying to stick close to what I'm used to, that's all; I've used Encore since 1.0 for all of my home-made DVDs, and in general it behaves very well and provides for the sort of customizations in menus and navigation that I'm used to. If I bother to use anything else, it will be with the hope that Adobe fixes their import bug so that I can go back as soon as possible. At the same time, I'm confident that Adobe will never add anything like Smart Rendering to Premiere/Encore, since editing of MPEG-2, AVCHD, etc., is just a blip on their radar screen. So for that reason VS X2 is probably here to stay, unless I find another solution for cutting without recompressing that works around Encore's import bug. Nero comes close to being useful, but is so buggy it's basically a walk in a mine field every time you launch it (it was the product I auditioned together with VS).

Well! I'm going to consider this thread DEAD, as it seems we've wandered OT (re-read Subject).

Cheers,
Aaron

deleted post

Aaron,

how do you know, that PMB is reencoding edited trimmed clips ?
In my opinion, it is not.
As for multitrimming: if you can trim any clip at the ends you can do multitrimming in many stages, can't you ? Actually, it demands more effort.

for summary of our interesting discussion:

I hope you will find the proper software.
I was forced a few months ago and found it fortunately (all due AVCHD "features" of Pro X2 ).



cheers