Alludo USER to USER Web Board

Since I now have a blu ray player and hdvt I've started to experiment with converting hdv files to dvd (for regular distribution) and ran into a problem. Previously I just used the camera's (Canon H20) DV downconvert output via firewire into computer and then created a dvd file usually at 9000 cbr and 100% setting without too much complaints. Now I've started importing the hdv files and making my own avchd files with great success (over 40 minutes on standard dvd and they look great) but the problem was in making standard dvd files from hdv files. I used the standard 8000 variable rate at 70% quality and it looked horrendous. Slight angled lines showed severe jaggedness. I was using upper field settings and found out that was my problem. I could clearly see the problem even on a computer screen which usually doesn't show a field order problem. Switching to lower field solved all the downconverted jaggedness. Now nice, smooth video. Doesn't make sense since I thought it should be upper field first. Live and learn! I did some research on the archives and found one post with the same results. I thought I'd make another post to save some headaches in the future.

kw wrote:Since I now have a blu ray player and hdvt I've started to experiment with converting hdv files to dvd (for regular distribution) and ran into a problem. Previously I just used the camera's (Canon H20) DV downconvert output via firewire into computer and then created a dvd file usually at 9000 cbr and 100% setting without too much complaints

As a prospective HV30 buyer, I have the pdf manuals for both the HV20 and HV30. I see scant mention of any down-conversion ability, and only a couple of ambiguous references to it in other posts. In fact the section in the manuals on connecting to a pc are pitifully short. Can the camcorder actually output footage already recorded onto the Mini-DV tape in the HDV format as DV avi?

I know that it can record either in HDV format or DV avi format. The former will be upper field first, whilst the latter will be lower field first.

The recommendation is not to mix recording types on any single tape, just as you would not mix recordings in the DV SP and LP modes. I suspect it may confuse things. Could that be happening in your case? Do your problematical clips come from a tape which contains both types of recordings?

One further complication is that the HV20 can record in 24p mode. In the NTSC model at least, this is a pseudo progressive mode, since it's padded with interlaced frames. I trust you are working with the normal 50i or 60i HDV mode. Are you working with NTSC or PAL?

kw wrote:Now I've started importing the hdv files and making my own avchd files with great success (over 40 minutes on standard dvd and they look great) but the problem was in making standard dvd files from hdv files. I used the standard 8000 variable rate at 70% quality and it looked horrendous. Slight angled lines showed severe jaggedness. I was using upper field settings and found out that was my problem. I could clearly see the problem even on a computer screen which usually doesn't show a field order problem. Switching to lower field solved all the downconverted jaggedness. Now nice, smooth video. Doesn't make sense since I thought it should be upper field first. Live and learn!

The effects you describe do seem like a field order issue. If you check one of your HDV source clips, what field order does Video Studio show it to be?

kw wrote:I did some research on the archives and found one post with the same results. I thought I'd make another post to save some headaches in the future.

I could only find one reference to a user settling for frame-based since he claimed both LFF and UFF looked bad on an HDTV, but several mentions by another HV20 user of maintaining the correct UFF setting when producing an SD DVD from HV20 HDV footage.

I've had the HV20 about a yr and have never tried out the dv recording capability. I've always recorded in the HDV format. The camera has a setting called DVLock which "locks" the output via firewire (no matter how tit was recorded) to dv file format (you can even use the zoom function to zoom into the picture while outputting dv format). That's what I've used all yr until now. Under properties of my hdv files it says upper field first and that's what I used when making the avchd files for high def dvd's. I will say that I see no motion artifacts recording at vbr 15,000 (averaging 11,000) and will say it's way, way better than a dvd file recorded at 9000 rate. I'm very glad I went with the HV20 hdv format but perhaps a avchd camcorder would have fit the bill also without the hazzles of tape but tape makes a wonderful archive for the time being. BTW: I'm working with ntsc only here in the states. Let me know if you have any more questions regarding the HV20. I use with a juicedlink audio adapter which converts XLR mics to mini stereo input into camera and has built-in phantom power and preamps so one can boost the audio and reduce the camera mic level to reduce the noise level considerably. The HV20 really is very noisy in the audio department without the juicedlink but with juicedlink makes it on par with pro cameras. (visit the HV20-30 format at http://hv20.com/index.php ) for all you need to know about cameras.