Recording back to tape: wrong time format

[roger trigg]

(VS 10 Plus) I've edited and rendered a video as an avi file and want to record it back to tape. I'm in the UK so things were set to PAL (for TV playback option) but when attempting Share>DV Recording I get an error message 'The time formats of the DV camcorder and clip are of different systems, one is NTSC, the other is PAL'. The camcorder is Panasonic NV-GS320. I've been through its menus but can't find any NTSC/PAL options.

[2Dogs]

Could you post your avi clip properties? Right click on the clip in the library window to bring up a properties window.

[roger trigg]

Newbie here; how exactly do you insert images in this forum?[/img]

[2Dogs]

It's a bit of a pain! You have to upload your image to a hosting site - I use PhotoBucket, but there are plenty of others, which offer free basic services.

You then need to reference the uploaded image file in your post with HTML code. (I had to get my 11yr old daughter to show me how to do that!)

There should be some tutorials - I would bet that Steve Jones has one for it!

In the mean time, it's probably easier for you to do it "the long way" by typing in the information. You may be able to cut and paste it line by line to save on a bit of typing....

[roger trigg]

I'll do it the long way!

FILE
File name: .........
File format: Microsoft AVI files - openDML
File size: ~12Gb
Frame rate : 25,000 frames/sec
Duration 3480.800 secs
Data rate: 1257.23 kbps

VIDEO
Compression: DV Video Encoder - type 1
Attributes: 24 bits; 720 x 576, 16:9
Total frames: 85,770 frames

AUDIO
Compression: DV Audio - PAL
Attributes: 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Total samples: 164,678,400

[2Dogs]

Thanks for the info.

There is an anomaly - the number of frames shown in the Video section is 85770.

Since the file duration is 3480.8 seconds, at 25 frames per second I would expect to see 3480.8 x 25 = 87020.

It's nothing like the 104320 frames you would expect if the video was NTSC, however.

In the audio section, however, with the sample rate of 48000hz, the number of samples is exactly as expected - 3480.8 x 48000 = 164,678,400.


Did all the source clips originate from your Panasonic?

Your camcorder is definitely a PAL model - the NTSC variant was called the PV-GS320.

I can only suggest that you check the properties for each clip that you used to make up the project, and look for any anomalies.

[roger trigg]

A small typo on my part - the duration actually reads 3430.800 secs, not 3480.800. And all the source clips did come from the Panasonic.

[tyamada]

From what you describe your camera might be NTSC. I'm not sure how you would check to see which format it records in, maybe someone on the board might know.

[2Dogs]

Hmmm.

All the numbers are right then.

You are sure that the original clips in your project are PAL? I think they must be, since your camcorder model number is definitely the PAL version, but it would be possible to render NTSC DV avi clips to PAL in VS. It's unlikely that you're doing that, since for one thing the results are pretty crappy, but do let us know to rule it out. (clutching at straws!)

I can't believe a PAL spec Panasonic camcorder would use NTSC timecode. Is there anything in the manual about recording back to the camcorder?

You could try running the X2 trial version and see if that gives you the same error message. It shouldn't interfere with your VS10 install, but you might choose to make a windows System Restore point before installing the VS12 trial, then you can revert - after finding out that it didn't solve our problem!

I seem to recall one version of VS had a bug that prevented dropped the audio when recording back to the camcorder, but that might have been VS7 or 8.

[Black Lab]

FWIW - How Do I Load Images?

[roger trigg]

All clips are definitely PAL. The quality of the rendered avi file is stunning (viewed on PC) - one reason why I'm keen to keep it rather than encode to mpeg-2. I have in fact done that and burnt to DVD but the quality drop is quite noticeable.
Nothing useful in the manual about recording back to camcorder.
I think trying with X2 trial version is worth doing. I'll give that a go and report back tomorrow. Thanks for your interest and suggestions.

[2Dogs]

I had a look at the NV-GS320 manual.

On page 46, in the section entitled "Using the DV Cable for Digital recording" there is an ominous remark to the effect "This model cannot be used as a recorder"

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Roger

As a test

Capture a short clip from your camcorder using Firewire to DV format.
The resultant file being DV-Avi. (A few seconds will do) Contain the cameras video properties.

Now use Tools Make Movie Manager to create a template, use the ¡¥Add¡¦ function using your captured video file.

Render your project using this template.

Does the Avi record back to camcorder

Note

If you set ¡¥Show messages when inserting first¡K¡K¡K. From File ¡V Preferences
You will see an info window prompting you to match project properties.(only shows on first clip)
Start a new project¡Xinsert video file
Select Details
Use mouse to copy details in right panel (video properties) and paste to forum.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Roger

Unfortunately I think 2Dogs has hit the nail on the head.

I found this spec¡¦ page from Panasonic
Scroll down to the ¡¥interfaces¡¦ section, view the DV Input / Output (IEEE1394)
If the camera was purchased in the UK or Europe then it may not have DV-In, which is required to record back to the camera.

http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/dv/g ... tions.html

But check your camera guide regarding DV inputs just to make sure.

[2Dogs]

It's crap, isn't it! The UK has some arcane (some would say archaic) import regs and duties, resulting in this sort of nonsense.

I suppose that in defense of the UK, it's just possible that it was somehow cheaper for Panasonic to make the PAL version of the camcorder based on the NTSC one, and keep the NTSC timecode. Either way it's bad for the end user.