Distortion after inserted transition - Pro x2 - HF100

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:50 am

I have NEVER had the problems what you are talking about.
I have the same camera like you, so this is absolutely strange.
My produces are always fantastic.
Did you try change some settings for AVCHD profile ?
Which version have you tested ?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:56 am

Do you use SmartRender?

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:53 pm

Usually I did not (for final production).
Sometimes I do (for temporary production).

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:18 pm

Thanks, I was just interested since I have been recommending that people NOT use SmartRender for final production with either AVCHD or HDV... No one seems to take much notice, though...

Xyzzy2 · Post by **Xyzzy2** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:11 pm

dalemccl wrote: If you read the following thread, particularly the 1st and 6th message, it tells how to upload test clips to Corel's ftp site. I suggest uploading a short file that contains the problem (and was created by X2) and also the raw unedited clip, zipped together.

It have taken (too) long, but now my sample is uploaded to Corel website (Canon HF100.zip). I've also created new support ticket.

X.

Xyzzy2 · Post by **Xyzzy2** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:44 am

And I've got standard answer for the problem "During the play back of you video project the video becomes choppy or the audio is out of sync" :/

Oh well, I guess I cannot expect too much from 1st line support (or even reading support tickets with understanding.) I will try to make this ticket reach the right ears.

Xyzzy2 · Post by **Xyzzy2** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:55 pm

Oh, btw, I've noticed that in the clip I've uploaded, there is a blip also just BEFORE the transition :/
Anyone else has seen this?

Klaas · Post by **Klaas** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:26 pm

I also have those transitions "beeps" to (black flashes). I use "Smart Rendering".

This week I also tried it without the "Smart Rendering". The flashes were gone, but the final result was not as good as the original. Could clearly see the difference. The are two down sides NOT using Smart Rendering.

1. It takes a long time for a project to render.
2. The quality will always be (slightly?) worse.

I also own a HF100 and shoot my footage in 1080/25P!

There is a separate topic regarding this (also a sticky). I see that many more have this issue but so far no fix from Corel. Many examples have been given. It's disappointing to see that Corel doesn't release regular fixes for the problems reported

-edit-
I re-read the complete tread. Only one thing to say: The support Corel gives really s*cks. (excuse my language). Many freeware products have better support than this. We are almost a year further and no further updates at all!

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:41 pm

Klaas wrote:I also have those transitions "beeps" to (black flashes). I use "Smart Rendering".

This week I also tried it without the "Smart Rendering". The flashes were gone, but the final result was not as good as the original.

I get the flashes after transitions even with Smart Render off.

Regarding the lower quality when Smart Render is off. What I have experienced is that when you do a "Share/Create Video File" with AVCHD, Smart Render will retain the high bit rate of the original clips, but with Smart Render off, X2 renders a file with a much lower bit rate, thus the lower quality.

With my Sony, the original clips are in the 15-17 kps range. With Smart Render on, the rendered video is in the same range and the quality is identical. With Smart Render off, the rendered video file is in the 8-11 kbs range and the quality is significantly lower, which is especially noticeable on pans where vertical lines in the scene become zig-zaggy. This occurs even if you set the bit rate to 18k and the quality slider to 100%.

Even with Smart Render on, if you made any edits to a clip such as adjusting the brightness or contrast, the clip has to be re-rendered and you get the lower bit rate.

I found that if you create a hybrid AVCHD disc directly from the project time line (Share/Create Disc/AVCHD) instead of creating a video file, the higher bite rate of the original clips is maintained, even with clips that were edited. So a work-around is to skip the file creation step and go directly to disc. If you need the file, you can copy the .m2ts file from the DVD disc to your hard drive. This work-around takes longer and wastes a disc if you didn't really want a disc (you could use a re-writable disc.)

I created a support ticket about this and got the usual irrelevant, non-helpful reply from Corel's 1st support level. I escalated it and got a 2nd level response that said when X2 renders with Smart Render on, it does not attempt to retain the original bit rate. In other words they say this is how the software was designed.

I still believe this is a bug or design flaw. If X2 can render high bit rate video when creating a disc, it should be able to do it when creating a file.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:09 pm

With my Sony, the original clips are in the 15-17 kps range. With Smart Render on, the rendered video is in the same range and the quality is identical. With Smart Render off, the rendered video file is in the 8-11 kbs range and the quality is significantly lower, which is especially noticeable on pans where vertical lines in the scene become zig-zaggy. This occurs even if you set the bit rate to 18k and the quality slider to 100%.

The jaggies on vertical objects are usually caused by the rolling shutter effect.

I found that if you create a hybrid AVCHD disc directly from the project time line (Share/Create Disc/AVCHD) instead of creating a video file, the higher bite rate of the original clips is maintained, even with clips that were edited. So a work-around is to skip the file creation step and go directly to disc.

That is exactly the advice that Ken Berry has stated many times.

mitchell65 · Post by **mitchell65** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:14 pm

I found that if you create a hybrid AVCHD disc directly from the project time line (Share/Create Disc/AVCHD) instead of creating a video file, the higher bite rate of the original clips is maintained, even with clips that were edited. So a work-around is to skip the file creation step and go directly to disc. If you need the file, you can copy the .m2ts file from the DVD disc to your hard drive. This work-around takes longer and wastes a disc if you didn't really want a disc (you could use a re-writable disc.)

Thanks for bringing this to the fore. I found this as well but as the creation of a file and then burning from that seemed to be almost everybody's preferred way, I thought I had got it all wrong. Now I see why, I hadn't thought of comparing the 2 properties created. I would never have noticed the different bit rate!
I never stop learning with video editing!

P.S. I always burn a DVD R+W disc as the first one anyway!

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:12 pm

While I have, as Black Lab suggested, been recommending for well over a year that an AVCHD disc be burned directly from the project file, without first creating an AVCHD file, I should explain a little further. It is a small, but perhaps important gloss on what has been discussed in the last two or three posts in this thread.

I do this because, like dalemccl, I was rather dissatisfied with the default templates for AVCHD when using Share > Create Video File > AVCHD. Like him, I had found that end quality to be noticeably inferior to the original, and this was regardless of whether I was using HDV or AVCHD files in the project. I was getting a similar average bitrate range, though for me it seemed to be in the 9 --12 Mbps range.

By doing my editing and jumping straight to the burning module with the project .vsp file inserted in the burning timeline, in effect there is no compliant mpeg file for burning, so it is irrelevant whether the 'do not convert compliant mpeg files' box (middle icon in bottom left of burning screen) is ticked or not. In other words, the properties in the burning properties box above that box are what govern the burn. And of course you can vary these. I always made sure they were set for a bitrate of 18 Mbps. That way, I always got excellent results on my AVCHD discs...

And like John Mitchell, I also burn all my projects, SD and HD, to a rewritable disc first... (In my case, for some reason or other, I find that the AVCHD hybrid format seems to take better to +RW [TDK] discs, as opposed to -RW discs, which nevertheless work fine with SD DVDs...)

Klaas · Post by **Klaas** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:27 pm

I have asked Corel for an update. My question was;

Please see the following topics:
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?t=35106
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?t=33784

Many of us are anxiously waiting for a patch for this problem. Can you give me an update when the next patch for X2 will be released and also solves this issue?

The response from Corel:

Response (Robby) 08/04/2009 02:28 PM
Dear Klaas,

Thank you very much for your e-mail.

The issue has already been sent to the VideoStudio team. We do not have any date as to when a patch will be released, so I cannot comment on this one.

Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further questions.

Kind regards,
Robby
Corel Customer Support

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:44 pm

Why am I (we?) not surprised??? It has been more than a year now, plenty of time to find some sort of fix. But as time ticks away, and the release of Windows 7 in October indicates that a new VS will be in the offing sometime after that, I can't imagine they will be too worried about a patch for existing programs. It would be nice to think they were working on one, but I won't be holding my breath...

Klaas · Post by **Klaas** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:06 am

What is strange to me, is that we see no response from any technical Corel employee on this board (or am I mistaken?).

I am used that when you have an official support forum the company also participates in the discussions.

I hope every one who reads this tread asks Corel about there progress on this topic!

But as Ken also between the lines states, I do not think we will ever see an update

At this point I am really sorry I bought Video Studio!