MPEG2 file on DVD

[miettemeg]

I have just been reading this post http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=20224 and I am slightly confused about something...
I understand that everytime you render a film you lose some quality. So if you create an MPEG2 DVD compatible file in VS (it renders a first time), how do you then burn it to DVD?

If you then open a new project in VS, 'import' the newly created MPEG2 file and then go to 'Share' to create a DVD it renders a second time. Am I right to say that some quality is lost then?

I apologise in advance if the experts amongst you feel this is a stupid question!

Thanks

Odile

[Black Lab]

If your output properties match those of your MPEG-2 file, and you have the Do Not Convert Compliant MPEG Files box checked, your file will not be re-rendered.

With that said, I don't think the naked eye could detect one re-render of an MPEG-2 file.

[Ken Berry]

No. If you render the project in the Editor to a DVD-compatible mpeg-2, that is the only time it is rendered. When you open the burning module (Share > Create Disc > DVD) and insert that mpeg-2, you check in the second (middle) of the three icons down in the bottom left of the burning screen. There is a box with the words 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files', and it should be ticked by default. If it is not ticked, then tick it. That means exactly what it says. The mpeg-2 will not be 'converted' which means the same thing as rendered.

All that should be rendered in the burning process is the menu which has to be converted into video format. After that it is just multiplexing the audio and video, and then the actual burn.

What may be confusing is that some people do not render a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 in the Editing process. Instead, they do their edits, then jump straight to the burning module, and their project file is used there. That the conversion to mpeg-2 is the first step of the burning process itself. But it is still the one and only time that the conversion occurs.

[miettemeg]

No. If you render the project in the Editor to a DVD-compatible mpeg-2, that is the only time it is rendered. When you open the burning module (Share > Create Disc > DVD) and insert that mpeg-2, you check in the second (middle) of the three icons down in the bottom left of the burning screen. There is a box with the words 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files', and it should be ticked by default. If it is not ticked, then tick it. That means exactly what it says. The mpeg-2 will not be 'converted' which means the same thing as rendered.

All that should be rendered in the burning process is the menu which has to be converted into video format. After that it is just multiplexing the audio and video, and then the actual burn.

What may be confusing is that some people do not render a DVD.

Thank you for the explanation. I checked and 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked however it always seems to convert / render the file. I get the message 'This action will take some time to render. Continue?'

I am now thinking that I am not rendering the project as a DVD-compatible mpeg-2. Where am I going wrong?

I am using AVCHD MTS files from a Canon HG10.
File / Project Properties:
PAL (25 fps)
MPEG files
24 bit 720 x 576, 25fps
Lower field first
DVD - PAL 16:9
Video data rate: variable (Max 8000 kbps)
LCPM Audio, 4800Hz, Stereo

When I create the file I use either:
1. Share > Create video file > Same as project settings
or
2. Share > Create video file > DVD/VCD/SVCD/MPEG > PAL DVD (16:9)
or
3. Share > Create video file > PAL MPEG2 (720 x 576, 25fps)

I do not have a menu (I am just doing a test on a very short project at this stage - I have a 40 minute project more or less ready to output on disk so I want to make sure I know what I am doing first!), but when I try to create a DVD using any of the 3 files I get the message 'This action will take some time to render. Continue?'

Are the files I am creating MPEG files and not MPEG2?

Thanks.

[Ken Berry]

A couple of things. First and foremost, AVCHD is mpeg-4 and not mpeg-2. When you import it from your camera, it should have properties like Upper Field First, a frame size of 1920 x 1080, and a bitrate of around 17 or 18 Mbps. Audio will probably be Dolby 5.1 channel. (For the exact properties, right click on one of the files INSIDE Video Studio -- in the timeline or in the library pane.)

But this begs the question of exactly how your are getting the AVCHD from your camera to your computer, and whether you do anything else to it before opening it in Video Studio.

The problem is that the default project properties you give have nothing at all to do with the reality of your AVCHD. Nor can you change them to reflect the AVCHD properties -- that's a failing in VS, over which you have no control, and one which should have been corrected in X2 but hasn't been...

Anyway, if your intention is not to use the high definition aspect of your video for any purpose, but only downgrade it to standard definition DVD, then you do your editing and convert the AVCHD to standard definition mpeg-2. But here I would choose Share > Create Video File > Custom.

Now, in the dialogue box which appears, the properties shown down at the bottom will probably be the same as those you give above. But they are wrong in one very important aspect. Your original video is UPPER Field First, not Lower. Using the wrong field order will muck things up in the final product. So you click on the Options button then select the General tab, and change the Field Order to Upper Field First. You can leave the audio as it is, or change that too on the Compression tab to Dolby. Then click OK, give your new file a name and click the Save button. The rendering will take some time.

Note also that after you produce your new mpeg-2, you go to File > New Project. Don't worry about giving your new project a name. The objective is just to clear the timeline of your current project.

Once that is done, you select Share > Create Disc > DVD. The burning module will open. Use the Add Media button at the top to insert your new mpeg-2 in the burning timeline and proceed as you are already doing, making sure that Do Not Convert box is ticked.

I would also like to ask a question. You don't give much information about your computer except for its graphics card (good) and RAM. You also don't tell us which version of VS you are using. But have you had any trouble editing or previewing your AVCHD when it is is the timeline (presuming, of course, that it is still AVCHD by the time you insert it in VS and you have not converted it to mpeg-2 using another program beforehand).
Most people have trouble editing AVCHD, especially getting a smooth playback in Project preview mode.

[miettemeg]

Thank you, I will try tonight and let you know how I get on.

I will also update my profile and let you know how I got on editing AVCHD.

[miettemeg]

I did post most information last night but it has disappeared, I guess I didn't save it... so I'll try again...

I have now updated my profile and added details of the PC I am using. I am using VideoStudio Pro x2.

I do not convert my AVCHD files before using them in VS. I haven't had any problems with the editing process. Before our AVCHD camcorder I used Pinnacle but unfortunately I had quite a few problems when I tried using it with AVCH - very slow, kept crashing. I have experienced none of these problems with VS.

The only problem I had was with the DVD I burnt in VS. See http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... highlight= This is when I started creating a file (Share>Create video file>Same as project settings), then I created a project with it in Pinnacle before burning it in Pinnacle (project was rendered a second time).

As I now have a 40 minute video more or less ready to burn on DVD I thought I would make sure I created my file in the best possible quality, hence this post. If possible I would also rather create my in VS from start to finish.

The properties of my AVCHD file (as displayed when I double-click on the file in VS) are:

Video:
H.264 Video, Upper Field first
24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 16:9
25,000 frames/sec
Variable bit rate (Max 16000 kbps)

Audio:
Dolby Digital Audio
48,000Hz
Layer: None
256 kbps

I followed your instructions and created a file using 'Custom' and changing the settings to 'Upper field first'. I then burnt it to DVD in VS (Share > Create Disc > DVD. I added the file in the burning timeline and made sure that Do Not Convert box is ticked). Everything worked fine but I haven't had chance to try to play it in our DVD player yet. I guess I really need to try to do the same with my 40 minute video and see what it is like.

What sort of problems would it cause to select LOWER field first rather than UPPER field first?

Thank you.

[Ken Berry]

I really already answered that:

The problem is that the default project properties you give have nothing at all to do with the reality of your AVCHD. Nor can you change them to reflect the AVCHD properties -- that's a failing in VS, over which you have no control, and one which should have been corrected in X2 but hasn't been...

You can change the default field order in File > Project Properties before you start a new project to reflect the type of file you are going to convert your AVCHD to i.e. using 720 x 576 and Upper Field First and the same Dolby Audio. That will allow you to use Share > Create Video File > Same as Project Properties as you have been choosing, on this time you will get the correct Field Order.

That is fine as long as you always intend to burn a standard definition DVD. But if you decided to actually use your AVCHD for its high definition purpose, you can't use that method as you can't change File > Project Properties to contain AVCHD properties. That is what I was criticising in VS11.5 and now X2. So if you are going to produce a new AVCHD file from your AVCHD originals, or burn an AVCHD disc, you have to simply ignore the Project Properties, and instead, you go to Share > Create Video File > AVCHD and the default properties for that should be OK. You will get the choice between AVCHD 1920 or 1440, and you could choose either, but since your original uses 1440, I would choose that one.

[miettemeg]

Thanks Ken. I find all this rather confusing!

I think I will not change the project properties but instead choose the correct settings in Share > Create Video File > Custom. This will then allow me to create a file for a standard DVD (which is what I want to produce at the moment). However I will also create a file in Share > Create Video File > AVCHD, then if/when we get a blu-ray player later on I will be able to burn a DVD in HD for it.

[Heesenproductions]

I've run in a similar problem when using create a disc. My problem is that some clips (not all) break up with playback on a player, either from HDD folder or television dvd player and the audio/video is not precisely multiplexed.
I am working with large projects and use chapters for scene selection. Mostly the breakup video and audio problems is with dance events (lot of action).

Properties of your source files: MPEG-2, VBR 9100, Dolby Digital 5.1 (bitrate 448). Field order: Upper field first. Aspect ratio: 16:9. Frame size: 720 x 576. File sizes of clips differ, but the total size of all the clips are below 4.3gig. Source: rendered clips after editing. Preview playback with PowerDVD show no problems.

Capturing devise: Sony HDD camcorder (captured in mpeg-2, Dolby Digital as above.). Files transferred to HDD through USB connection.

Output properties: same as project settings. 100% quality. Two pass encoding.

PAL DVD

Product version: Corel Videostudio Pro X2

CPU: Quad core Q6600

The only way to get stable DVD output is too uncheck the do not convert mpeg complaint files option. Leaving by default have broken up video as result.

I cannot understand why I need to re-render the clips for DVD output. Anyone the wiser?

[Trevor Andrew]

I've run in a similar problem when using create a disc. My problem is that some clips (not all) break up with playback on a player, either from HDD folder or television dvd player and the audio/video is not precisely multiplexed.
I am working with large projects and use chapters for scene selection. Mostly the breakup video and audio problems is with dance events (lot of action).

Properties of your source files: MPEG-2, VBR 9100, Dolby Digital 5.1 (bitrate 448). Field order: Upper field first. Aspect ratio: 16:9. Frame size: 720 x 576. File sizes of clips differ, but the total size of all the clips are below 4.3gig. Source: rendered clips after editing. Preview playback with PowerDVD show no problems.

Use Share Create Video File-Same as First Clip should use your settings above.

Or use Same as Project only if the project settings match your settings above.
Or create your own template using Make Movie Manager, to your video settings.

Capturing devise: Sony HDD camcorder (captured in mpeg-2, Dolby Digital as above.). Files transferred to HDD through USB connection.

Output properties: same as project settings. 100% quality. Two pass encoding.

PAL DVD

Product version: Corel Videostudio Pro X2

CPU: Quad core Q6600

The only way to get stable DVD output is too uncheck the do not convert mpeg complaint files option. Leaving by default have broken up video as result.

I cannot understand why I need to re-render the clips for DVD output. Anyone the wiser?
A DVD needs a Mpeg 2, Because thats what is contained on a DVD, you either create your own doing Share Create Video File (recommended),
or allow VS to render in the burner module, either way a MPEG 2 file is created.

If you create the file first, then further rendering is not required in the burner module.

Please look at the properties of your video files Field Order, is it the same as the original.?

[Heesenproductions]

Hi, Trevor.
Thanks for your response.

To give you more details.

1. After inserting and editing of the mpeg2 files (transferred from the hdd camcorder) in the timeline, I render it with "Create Video File" using same as project settings. I always make sure that the project settings is the same as the camera mpeg2 file settings. The camera records in mpeg2, dolby digital 5.1, vbr 9100, audio bitrate 448 and upper field first. This is always my project settings too, plus I use 100% quality & DVD PAL. With editing I am using also overlay tracks and transitions where necessary for effects.

2. When all the video files are created, I start a fresh project and immediately proceed to "Create Disc" and choose DVD.

3. Then I add all the video files, as well as the first play video and proceed with the setup of a main menu as well as a chapter menu.

4. I check the project settings and ensure that it is still the same as the video files.

5. I preview the playback.

6. Then I proceed to the burning module, choosing burn to HDD.

7. I preview the playback of the rendered DVD with PowerDVD or Nero Showtime.

According to this method it should not be necessary for the burning module to recode the mpeg files, because it is supposed to be mpeg complaint. I also use the above steps with VideoStudio 11plus and never need to uncheck the "do not convert mpeg2 compliant files". Now with Videostudio 12 I have to do it with dance movies or concert plays.

Regards

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

When you finally hit the ¡¥burn¡¦ button Video Studio starts a process, indicated on the progress bar.
The first thing you should see is ¡¥Converting Menu¡¦, this is normal and is the beginning of the burn process.

However if you see ¡¥Convert Title¡¦ then your main video files are being converted / rendered.
As you started with a compatible video file this conversion is not required.
Are you saying that you see ¡¥Convert Title¡¦ in the progress bar?

I do not use HD video but assume that the process is the same as standard definition video.

[Heesenproductions]

Trevor said:

However if you see ¡¥Convert Title¡¦ then your main video files are being converted / rendered.
As you started with a compatible video file this conversion is not required.

By default the "do not convert complaint MPEG files" is checked in the project settings, so normally if left by default, the video file will not convert.

What I meant, is that when left on default, I get broken up video although the source files is already MPEG2 compliant and don't need conversion. When I opt for conversion by unchecking the tickbox of the "do not convert compliant MPEG files", then I get smooth video playback on the final result.

My problem is:
1. Why do I need to opt for conversion if the source files are already mpeg2 in order to get stable playback?
2. Why do I get unstable DVD playback when I do not opt for conversion of the mpeg2 source files?

Regards

[Black Lab]

I do not use HD video but assume that the process is the same as standard definition video.

Trevor, I don't think he is using Hi Def (HD), but a Hard Disc Drive (HDD) cam.