Strange mini-jumps and lack of fades

[Calstvns]

Using v12, creating an HD project, about 10 minutes long--project properties are 16:9, 1440x1080, upper field, VBR 25K, Mpg2 audio/48k/384. Clips, project and rendered file all have the same properties. The project does have an incredible number of small clips, many of them 4 or 5 seconds long. It plays just fine in preview. My computer has enough stuff to handle it. (click my "system" button to see what I have).

Curiously, though, when I finally create a video file there are occasional jumps in the picture, but not the sound. It's as quick as a blink, and the sound does not seem affected, but you can see it in the video, it's almost as if a frame was dropped. Little quick jumps. The audio is synched fine, and after those moments pass, you cannot see any lasting problem. But it happens repeatedly, about 5 or 10 times a minute, quite annoying. These seem to be often in moments when my cam pans or zooms, but other times too (pans and zoom just show of the little jumps a bit more obviously).

Interesting!! To illustrate--In the project file, frames 24.07, 24.08 and 24.09 flow perfectly, but in all rendered files made from this project, no matter what the properties of the rendering, those frames are frozen on the same moment in time. In fact, the first one jumps big, like from 24.07 is rendered as 24.09 and then the next two frames are identical while the whole thing catches up with itself.

The other thing that happens is that some of my audio fade out/in effects are not happening. They occur just fine in preview, but in the finished file they are gone. These are fade out-fade in that happen with effects, my most common being the F/X Crossfade. Using the effect automatically puts a sound fade on the previous clip, and a fade in on the next, but in the rendered file, both fade are gone and the sound of the next clip comes on abruptly when it arrives. This does not happen in all places, but in some. Render a new file and it happens again in the same place.

These little annoyances happen in the finished product of a rendered video file. Repeated renderings have the problems recur in the same places each time. And it doesn't matter if I'm rendering down to standard def, or rendering HD or a transport stream, in all three files I have the same problems, in the same places.

Any suggestions?

[Calstvns]

Hi, thought I'd log another post to move this back up the queue in hope that one of you could look at it. I could be briefer, maybe, and that would help my posts to be more readable.

To summarize: When creating a video file, the resulting product has a jumpy quality, actually jumping two frames occasionally, and then "catching up" ... like a skipping heartbeat. Also the fades will sometimes not work in the final product, though they worked in the project preview just fine. Please read original post for more detail.

Does anyone think that this could be the fault of not enough memory? Should I increase my memory from 4gb to 8gb? would that help? Or is something else going on here? (see my system stats for more info).

Thanks for your help.

[michal_h]

I think you may have the same problem?
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 606#169606

[Calstvns]

I just scanned the other thread in which this problem is discussed, thank you for referring me to it. It appears from the remarks there (though I have not studied the thread closely yet) that smart-render is one of the potential causes.

In your experience, has the problem disappeared when you have turned off smart-render? Is that a possible work-around?

I gather from the threads that this problem is persisting and that Corel does not pay a lot of attention to it, that it was happening with v11.5 also and still not fixed. Should I consider switching to another video editing software? If so, which one do you recommend?

[Black Lab]

If you read the similar thread that I threw into the thread that Michael_H referenced you will find that this problem seems to be inherent to MPEG-2 editing.

That other thread is here: http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... ht=#167247. Give yourself some time!

[Calstvns]

Thanks, Black Lab. I promise to take my time and study this well. I am sounding impatient only because I'm at work today, and my life is running at 1000 rpm!

But one of the real values of this board is to benefit from the discoveries of others. I'm not opposed to doing the hard work on it myself, but maybe you can give me the results of all the experimentation and discoveries that are in these threads.

Specifically, I wonder still if there's a work-around, or if this is just "the way it goes" with MPEG 2 editing, as you say. Is there a work-around by turning off smart render? Or some other trick? Would it help if I increased my computer's memory from 4 to 8 GB?

Thanks

[Black Lab]

When I said to give yourself some time I meant for reading the thread - it's 10 pages long!

This is an exerpt from the last page:

Personally, I've given up on smart MPEG rendering.

I doubt that the programmers currently employed by the various software companies have the necessary training/cleverness to get it right or they probably would have this issue fixed by now.

Womble is reportedly the only software that gets it right.

But Womble seems too basic in other ways.

So I just convert standard definition MPEG-2 to DV .avi for editing.

And I convert high definition MPEG-2/MPEG-4 to Cineform .avi for editing.

It works.

[Ken Berry]

And I and etech have been suggesting for months now that people should NOT use either SmartRender or two pass encode with AVCHD. Users then complain -- rightly, in my view -- that SmartRender should be 'fixed' to work with all formats. Yes, but we here don't work for Corel, so we can only suggest work-arounds for users.

The problem is, of course, that without SmartRender, the editing process is extended by literally hours. I find that rendering an AVCHD project, even on my Quad, can take between 3 and 4 times real time. But at least it works for me and does not have these reported faults.

As for getting a fix for this, again all I can say is that people should be reporting this direct to Corel, not just on this Board. Corel seldom if ever visit the Board, and so are unlikely even to be aware of these threads...

[Calstvns]

Thanks Ken. I am willing to turn of smart render and endure the wait if the end product is better. However, just to be clear, although your sentence refers to AVCHD, my troubles did not involve that format. I was rendering HD, HD/TS and SD video files, and the problems appeared in all of them in the same places.

Can I assume that turning off smart render might help in those formats as well?

Would there be any difference if I upgraded my memory from 4 to 8GB?

[Ken Berry]

It will certainly work with HDV -- that is what I mainly use anyway. I can't comment on SD video, though, if you are talking about SD video from a source other than down-converted SD from a HDV camera. I have never had problems with SmartRendering SD video, either in DV format or SD mpeg-2 format. So I am afraid you would need to try that yourself without SmartRender and see if it makes a difference...

[Calstvns]

Thanks again. My source for rendering SD video are HD clips, but in the rendering process I downgrade to SD. so the original project is the same in either case, it's just that I render one file in HD, and then render again in SD. The original in both cases is HD. And in both cases the jumps and bad fades happen.

OK, so I'll try turning off smart-render in the "create video file" step when I go to share my project.

I've been tagging one additional question that hasn't received a comment yet, whether upgrading my memory will make a difference, from 4 to 8GB. Other than simply the obvious advantage that more memory would get me anyway, is there any additional advantage that would get me regarding this issue?

[Clevo]

Thanks again. My source for rendering SD video are HD clips, but in the rendering process I downgrade to SD. so the original project is the same in either case, it's just that I render one file in HD, and then render again in SD. The original in both cases is HD. And in both cases the jumps and bad fades happen.

OK, so I'll try turning off smart-render in the "create video file" step when I go to share my project.

I've been tagging one additional question that hasn't received a comment yet, whether upgrading my memory will make a difference, from 4 to 8GB. Other than simply the obvious advantage that more memory would get me anyway, is there any additional advantage that would get me regarding this issue?

You'll need 64 bit OS/software to address more than 4gb of RAM and VS is still 32bit. So I don;t think it will make any difference

[Ken Berry]

And Vista seems to have difficulty even seeing RAM over 3.5 GB anyway! Moreover, I don't think your problem has anything to do with RAM...

[Calstvns]

Good news. When I turn off smart render, the problem goes away. Completely. Nada. Zippo. No problem.

I turn it off in two places, though I'm not sure both are necessary. The most important place to turn it off, I suspect, is in the options dialogue box when setting up the properties for the render job when creating the video file from the project. The other place I turn it off is in the icon which is just above the timeline in the edit phase.

In any event, the jumpiness is gone and the end product is smooth. I have found that to be the case when creating the HD file (and the HD TS file that I use VS10 to record back onto my cam tape). I am testing it now on creating a SD video file, but suspect that this will be OK too.

Thanks for all your help.

Heck! What good is smart render even if it saves you some time? If the end product is flawed, you're not happy with the saved time anyway, so turn it off!

[Ken Berry]

Not to mention all the time you and others have taken to reach this point!

But I am very glad you resolved it -- and added further weight to my (and etech's) earlier warnings against using both SmartRender and two-pass encode with high def video...