Pro X2 - Smart Proxy Question

[dalemccl]

I use Smart Proxy for editing AVCHD clips so that I get smooth playback in the preview window. However, I have found that the only time the Smart Proxy file is used for preview is when:
1. The clip is in the timeline
AND
2. When previewing, I click on "Project" rather than "Clip" near the transport buttons.

When both of these are true, Pro X2 uses the proxy file and the preview is smooth and I can see the lower quality of the proxy file video.

If I play a clip directly from the library, or in clip mode from the timeline, it appears to use the raw AVCHD clip and is choppy. Besides the choppiness, I can also tell it is using the raw AVCHD clip because of the much better quality of the preview than I see when the Proxy file is used while playing the "project".

Is this normal to only use the proxy file when playing the "project"?

I like to review my clips from the library before adding them to the timeline so I can determine whether the clip is good enough to add to the project. The choppiness makes it harder to review. Also when trimming clips, since Pro X2 doesn't use the proxy file when viewing an indivdual clip, it is harder to trim.

[Ken Berry]

That is my understanding of the way SmartProxy works -- and usually it has worked since on a well-resourced computer, AVCHD is supposed to play smoothly in clip mode. (Yours is certainly well-resourced!)

As I said in the other thread involving user bankroot, though, with the AVCHD he posted, I get exactly the same result as you: even though it only has a maximum bitrate of 16 Mbps, it plays jerkily in both Clip and Project mode in X2 (and VS11.5+), yet smoothly in PowerDVD and WinDVD. Even when I rendered it to a new AVCHD, it still played jerkily.

Anyway, here is an alternative to SmartProxy developed by our AVCHD guru etech. I stress that I have not tried this method as I have not needed to so far:

I first convert my avchd videos to standard definition mpeg2 dvd compliant videos. I then use those dvd compliant videos for editing.

Making sure the "Re-Link" feature is turned on after I save the project, I then either move the original mpeg2 dvd compliant videos or replace them with the original avchd videos.

After you¡¦re done editing the standard mpeg2 and save the project, then rename their folder so when you reload the project VS asks you to relink the videos. That's where you then select the original avchd videos. This is my own method using the dvd compliant videos as proxy files (plus I have them to make a standard dvd).

When I render the file or burn an avchd disk I turn off smartrender and the avchd videos look fine. I prefer using this proxy method compared to VS method of working with proxy files. Plus I also have them all in DVD compliant format.

[dalemccl]

Thanks, Ken. I may try etech's method, but I can also live with the current situation. I'd just prefer that Pro X2 used the proxy files when playing clips, as well as when playing the project.

Maybe there is a valid reason it doesn't. Or maybe the software developers just overlooked it. I may contact tech support to get their take on this.

[Ken Berry]

And if you get a response from them, I'd be very grateful if you would post it here...

[dalemccl]

Ken, an e-mail has been sent to tech support. Will post when I get their response.

I tried etech's method and it works well - the individual clips play smoothly - but I have one problem.

I created the pseudo proxy files with Batch Convert, which created files with the same file name as the original clips except it gave them a file extension of .mpg. The actual AVCHD clips have an extension of .mts. The batch convert dialog did not allow me to specifiy the file extension, it just had a whole group of extensions lumped together, which included .mts and mpg.)

After putting the newly created .mpg clips in the timeline and editing them, I saved the project, then renamed the folder in which these .mpg files reside. Pro X2 recognized that the .mpg files were no longer where it expected them to be and brought up the Re-link dialog. I had Smart Search checked, which according to the manual will allow Pro X2 to relink all the files at once. I pointed it to the .mts file corresponding to the first .mpg clip it asked to re-link. The other .mts files are in the same folder. But it only re-linked that one file and I had to repeat the process for each clip. That is OK for the 4 clip test I tried, but not good when I have a real project with dozens of clips.

I think it can't relink all the files all at one time because file extensions are different, so it can't match on the file name. It can only match up one file at a time when I point it to the specific .mts file that corresponds to the .mpg file that Relink wants to find.

I may not be following etech's method correctly. I'd like to reply to the original thread in hope that etech will see it, but I can't find the thread that you quoted (I tried Search but it didn't help.)

Do you have a link for the thread in which etech posted that method? (Or do you know how to get around the one-file-at-a-time re-linking, short of a batch rename of my raw clips to change their extension from .mts to .mpg?)

Thanks.

[Ken Berry]

Sorry. I don't think it was a thread. etech and I have had a lot of private email exchanges about various aspects of high def editing, only some of which has subsequently appeared on the Board. That was one of them which has not been here before now. I had simply filed his message on my computer as I thought it was a useful tip. But as I said, I have not tried it myself because I haven't needed to.

Normally, when I relink (when the extensions are all the same), re-linking the first clip usually leads to all the others in that project being relinked automatically. The only thing I can think of would be to rename the .mts extensions to .mpg (which is what they are anyway -- I do this occasionally since at least one of my software DVD players has trouble recognising either .mts or m2ts extensions.) Anyway, try that with your small experimental project to see if it works.

[dalemccl]

For my little experimental project, I just tried changing the extension of the original AVCHD clips from .mts to to .mpg and that does allow the Re-link process to re-link all the files as soon as I re-link the first one. So etech's workflow solves the problem of choppy preview of individual clips, although at the expense of a couple extra steps in the workflow.

I'll try using etech's workflow for a real project and then decide whether to continue to use it, or to go back to normal proxy files and just accept the choppy playback of individual AVCHD clips. At least now I have an alternative. Thanks for the tip.

[Ken Berry]

It depends on what your ultimate goals are. I for instance want to produce two things. First, I want to produce a high definition disc (I use the AVCHD hybrid disc route for the moment since I don't have a Blu-Ray burner, and don't want to play the ridiculous price for Blu-Ray discs). I can play such discs at home on my Sony PlayStation 3 in full high definition. That's great, but means you have to invite people around to your home to watch your masterpieces!

But for general distribution to family and friends who only have standard definition DVD players, I also need to produce a standard definition DVD from my high definition originals.

So if you too are in that situation, then it strikes me that etech's workflow satisfies both goals, making a virtue out of necessity. First, you eventually end up with edited and viewable AVCHD. But you have also already created and edited standard definition mpeg-2 which can then be burned separately to a standard definition DVD.

[bankroot]

very interesting thread

I will try "fake proxy" method this evening.


PS.
My goal is to have Bluray structure on HDD (when Bluray burners and BD disks will be cheaper - ready to burn if necessary).
Disc connected via USB to PS3 and voila !!!
I don't like disc's juggling

SD DVD for friends anf family too.

[dalemccl]

And if you get a response from them, I'd be very grateful if you would post it here...

Well, I got an e-mail response. They told me to install the August, 2008 DirectX update, which I had already done.

I updated my question to tell them so, and added that other users have observed the same behaviour. I asked them to try it themselves to verify. Hopefully the next response will be better.

[dalemccl]

And if you get a response from them, I'd be very grateful if you would post it here...

Well, I got an e-mail response. They told me to install the August, 2008 DirectX update, which I had already done.

I updated my question to tell them so, and added that other users have observed the same behaviour. I asked them to try it themselves to verify. Hopefully the next response will be better.

I got a new response from Corel. The person working on the issue was going to try to replicate the problem and asked for my proxy settings, which I then provided.

This is the new reply:

"While I'm doing a simulation on my end, my immediate supervisor informed me that VideoStudio X2 only utilizes the smart proxy feature when you're playing the file in 'Project' mode. The main purpose of the smart proxy feature is to speed-up the preview of the entire project."

I followed up with a request to change the program in a future release to use proxys at a clip level also. I doubt that my request will be fullfilled, but you never know.