X2 Pro - jerky even frozen preview

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:31 pm

Hello again,

I've just bought Pro X2 and try to make AVCHD project.
After import my video files from HDD (mts or m2ts) to story board I am trying to preview a clip.
Unfortunately all of them are jerky or frozen, so editing is impossible.
Slider is keep going smoothly, but picture is not

I would like to say, that have no problem with Pixela Image Mixer
(bundled with my Canon camera).

what is the problem ???

(I tried many settings like smart proxy, instant or HQ playback)

addendum:

in half an hour I found another problem: If I want to add video file (mts or m2ts) inn SHARE option for making AVCHD disk, Pro X2 is hanging up

Tried many times with many files.
I am completely desolated.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:57 pm

Please press the Ctrl-Alt-Del keys together and bring up task manager.
Let us know how many running processes you have and how much RAM is in use.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:25 pm

Can you also tell us the model number of your Canon camera, please? If it is very new, it may be one of the recent models Canon released which use a new AVCHD format which has a maximum bitrate of 24 Mbps. Previously, AVCHD cameras only had a maximum of 17 or 18 Mbps. I downloaded some of the sample video on the Canon site taken with the new camera, and it will not play smoothly on my Core 2 Quad (see my System button for details) either in Clip mode or Project Mode. Normally, AVCHD will play very smoothly in Clip mode and have little jerky movements in Project mode, but not too bad and certainly good enough to do editing without using SmartProxy very slowly. I even tried making a project by joining two of those sample videos together and rendering a new file, but that came out jerky too, even when I played it on WinDVD 9 and PowerDVD 8, both of which normally play AVCHD with no problem...

Thank you for providing your own System details, by the way.

I would say with that system, you could handle AVCHD with no problem. But apart from the software provided by Canon, if indeed your camera is this new one, I am not sure any software editing package will be able to handle your video properly.

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:51 am

first of all thank you very much for very quick answer.

sjj1805:

in "quiet" option (no VS running) I have 55 processes, 0 to 1% processor utilization and 416 MB RAM used.

When I preview a clip in Pixela application, I,ve got 56 processes, 50 to 57% processor usage and 586 MB RAM.

When I preview a clip in Pro X2 application, I,ve got 55 processes, 3 to 65% processor usage and 732 MB RAM. (very strange is processor's usage, isn't it ?)

Ken:

My camera is HF100, so it has maximum 17 Mb/s VBR coding speed.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:45 pm

Well, in that case I am mystified. In some ways, your system is more powerful than mine. As I say, on mine the AVCHD plays ultra smooth in Clip mode and even in Project mode is smooth enough (though not totally) to make editing not so bad. And the final prouct from editing in that format also produces smooth playback in WinDVD/PowerDVD or my PlayStation 3, either playing back AVCHD direct or as an AVCHD hybrid disc...

All I can suggest is that you try SmartProxy once again -- though you really should not need to. It takes absolutely ages to generate proxy files, and then, when you apply the edits finally, it takes ages more for them to be applied. So you have to be patient.

I also have no difficulty whether the file extension is .m2ts or .mts. But sometimes I have found that things play more smoothly if I change the extension to .mpg. So you could try that too... at least with one trial clip.

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:08 pm

bankroot, I have the same problem with AVCHD clips from a Sony SR-11, so maybe we can compare our symptoms to try to find a solution or to narrow the problem down and report it to Corel.

For me, playback in the preview window is too choppy to use for editing. The slider moves smoothly, the audio is smooth, but the video is choppy. This is true of playing clips from the library or playing the timeline. It is true even with no edits at all, just playing the raw clips. The video will be smooth for a second or two, then choppy for a second or two, then back to smooth again, and so on.

WinDVD 8 Silver can play the clips or AVCHD discs smoothly, which proves that the system is capable of smooth AVCHD playback, so I am not sure why Pro X2 can't do it too. I can understand that it could be choppy in Pro X2 after edits have been applied, but playing the raw clips should be smooth.

As a work-around I always create proxy files as soon as I place clips in the library which, though time-consuming, solves the problem.

My system is an Intel Quad Core Q9550 2.83 GHz with 8 GB of RAM. (I just upgraded from 4GB to 8GB hoping it would help, but it didn't.) Two 7200 RPM 750 GB hard drives. The motherboard chipset is Intel X38.

I am using Vista Ultimate 64 bit with no applications installed except Pro X2 and WinDVD 8 Silver. The PC is not internet-connected, so there is no anti-virus, etc. installed. 44 processes are running while Pro X2 is playing back video. 1.18 GB of memory is in use. I have given the Pro X2 process high priorty in Vista's Task Manager.

Taks Manager shows that the processor load varies continually from about 3% to about 30%. It goes back and forth rapidly. All the CPU usage is from Pro X2. No other process is using CPU. You said that your CPU load also varys considerably -- from 3% to 65%.

Ken, do you see rapid swings in CPU load during playback? If yours is more steady, maybe our problem is related to that pattern of CPU usage where it frequently drops too low.

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:50 pm

Exactly the same symptoms dalemccl !!!!!
Nothing less nothing more.

Now I am reinstaling Pro X2, late evening otr tomorrow morning I'll let you know what is result.

Tell me what are your settings for preview in project settings ?

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:08 pm

bankroot wrote:Exactly the same symptoms dalemccl !!!!!
Nothing less nothing more.

Now I am reinstaling Pro X2, late evening otr tomorrow morning I'll let you know what is result.

Tell me what are your settings for preview in project settings ?

If you mean my settings in "file-preferences" and then the "preview" tab, I am using the default settings in that tab, which have "Specify Additional Folders for Preview" set to a temp file on my C drive that Pro X2 chose. The box for additional folders 2, 3, and 4 are unchecked. "Hard Disc" refers to my C drive and shows almost 23 GB free. The box for "Limit Hard Disk Usage to" is unchecked.

If you mean the settings in "File-Project Properties"-then click on the "Edit" button, they are:

Corel VideoStudio tab:
-TV Standard is set to NTSC Drop Frame (29.97 fps) and is greyed out
-Perform Non-square Pixal Rendering is checked
-Audio is set to multichannel surround sound.

General tab:
-Data Track is Audio and Video, Frame Rate is 29.97 frames/second
-Frame Type is Upper Field First
-Frame Size has the Standard button selected and 720x480 is selected in the drop down menu (I have tried smaller sizes too).
-Display Aspect Ratio is 16:9

Compression Tab:
-NTSC, the quality slider is on 100%, which I changed from the default, which I think is 70%
-Video Format is MPEG-2 and is greyed out so it can't be changed
-I-frames only is not checked
-Two -pass encode is not checked
-Video Data Rate is Variable 6000
-Audio Format is Dolby Digital audio
-Audio Type is 3/2 (L,R,C,SL,SR)
-Audio Frequency is 48000
-Audio bit rate is 384

I hope re-installation of Pro X2 solves your problem, but I have tried that and it didn't help me.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:48 pm

The Project Properties are largely irrelevant to AVCHD since they bear no relationship to AVCHD properties and in any case, cannot be changed to reflect AVCHD properties -- which is a disappointment since that was also the case with VS11.5+ and I thought they would change that for X2. So I just ignore those. However, I usually leave the quality slider at its default setting. Some people say that moving it to 100 gives them better quality, but I have never noticed such an improvement. Equally, I am more than happy with the high quality I get from my final rendered HDV clips or AVCHD hybrid discs.

Oh, and I always, on installation, change my working folder from the default one on the C:\ drive to another one (I have 6 internal drives). And I do the same for the burning working folder, which is set to the same default one as in File > Preferences, but has its own Preferences in the burning module first icon on the bottom left of screen. That has to be changed separated as changing it in the Editor module does not affect the burning module setting. Not that that should have the effect you are experiencing since we are not talking about playback in the burning module.

As for processor use on my Q6600, I get some swings when playing or processing AVCHD, but nothing like the range you describe. Two of the processors run in the 37 - 48% range, mostly at the lower end, but a few spikes to the higher end. Ditto for the other two, though they run in the 45 -- 55% range.

Doubling your RAM to 8 GB is unlikely to achieve much if you are running Vista since it seems to have problems assigning much more than 3 or 3.5 GB anyway...

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:09 pm

nothing changed after reinstalling (I deleted ffdshow codecs too).

seems to we have a big problem

Ken:

Corel says that when we insert first clip to storyboard or timeline different than default settings, Pro X2 shoud inform us about changing project parameters.
I can see nothing like this (setting are like for PAL DVD), so maybe during preview contens of the clip is rendered to PAL ? I have no idea.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:25 pm

What Corel says about that message when inserting the first clip has existed in every version of the Manual and Help files since I have been using VS (which started with VS7 about 6 years ago). But as I suggested above, it just does not apply to either HDV or AVCHD format video (I use both). The default Project Properties as far as I can see only apply, as you say, to standard definition DVD, whether PAL or NTSC, and I assume you, being in Poland use PAL in any case. But no, during Preview, no rendering occurs unless you have it set to 'High Quality Playback' instead of the default 'Instant Playback'. If you select HQ Playback, a temporary file is rendered, and this will take some time.

Have you tried using SmartProxy? If you hover your mouse pointer over the icons above the timeline ruler, you will find the toggle switch 'Enable/Disable SmartProxy'. (It's just below the blue counter under the bottom right-hand corner of the preview screen.)

Then when you insert an AVCHD file, a proxy standard definition mpeg-2 is created for editing and preview. This will all be smooth (or should be). But it takes time to create the proxy file so you have to be patient. Then when you finish your edits, they are applied to the original AVCHD files. Again this will take time.

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:49 pm

Yes, I have tried. Same effect.

I am preety sure, that Corel has problem with playing raw mts or m2ts files.
Even inside import folder (submenu of Insert Digital Media) we have small window with player. Every clip from AVCHD structure is choopy.
For me is clear case: it is the bug.

Going sleep (midnight in Poland).
Tomorrow I will fight again. See You

Good morning everyone !

Her you are two clips from my camera.
Can you check, how they look like on your PC, please ?
All those files are played smoothly on Pixela Image Writer Player

http://rapidshare.com/files/151054633/2 ... .m2ts.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/151060106/2 ... .m2ts.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/151064599/2 ... .m2ts.html

John Moran_2 · Post by **John Moran_2** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:21 am

Both Pixela and VS 11.5 played the first short clip for me on my vista laptop, with background audio, but not without a pause or two. (I have had an almost unused Canon HF-100 for two months, so the experience is typical.)
JM_2

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:19 am

Using Pro X2 on a 2.83 GHz Quad Core, when playing the clips from the library, the first one with the drive down the highway looked smooth to me, although it was a little hard to tell for sure because it looked like the video was bouncing a little from the bumps in the road causing the camcorder to bounce. I couldn't quite tell whether I was seeing the video jump because of the bumps or because Pro X2 wasn't keeping up and was dropping frames.

The second one had very subtle jerkiness. I had to look close to see it, but the people walking were not quite in a smooth gait. Easily good enough for editing though.

When I added the two clips to the project timeline and played the project, they were both very choppy and useable for editing purposes. Even the audio stuttered on the clip with the car driving down the road.

When playing the clips individually from the timeline, they behaved the same as playing them from the library.

I wonder why the difference between playing as clips and playing as a project. With no edits to the clips I would think Pro X2 should be able to play the project the same as the clips.

bankroot · Post by **bankroot** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:39 am

John_Moran_2 and dalemccl:

thank you very much for checking my clips.

dalemccl:

Actually this clip from higway is not so good for testing, but belive me I am quite familiar to differentiate bouncing from jerking.
Typical behavior is that slider (and audio !) is going smoothly, but video stops for a moment (depends on lenght od the clip two or more times - not in the same moment) and run again. Seems like some buffer will be fullfiled and released after that.

My conclusions:

- Pro X2 is Core Quad optimized application, but because I observe maximum 60% of loading during playing clips, I am pretty sure, that this is not an issue (Pixela works with no breaks).
- I think, this is the bug and hope, that somebody from Corel read this Forum and will do something with this. I will wait for patch, now I wouldn't like to waste my precious time for solving this problem (many projects to prepare
-

)

- my workaround: I will trim my clips in Pixela Image Writer and save every clip as a new clip. After this I will import those clips to ProX2 and add necessary effects, text and audio. Next I will render this package to another file, which be used in authoring (one package will be one chapter in my project).

Big thanks for all who tried to help me
I like this Forum very much

cheers