Editing Canon HF11 30p/24Mbps footage (PF30) - HELP!

TimmyTutone · Post by **TimmyTutone** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:34 am

I just got the new Canon HF11. I want to shoot in PF30 (30 frames progressive mode) at the 24mbps setting. I am using Video Studio 11.5+.

Video Studio is importing the files that I've recorded in 30p/24Mbps just fine EXCEPT that they are saying it's upper field first. It's not. I need it to import them as Frame Based, so I can grab stills from the video, and work with it in progressive from start to finish (I only output to DV or lower, so AVCHD or HD output in progressive is NOT needed). Input IS needed though.

I think the problem is that canon has wrapped their 30p in some kind of 60i system or something. Not sure. And I KNOW the problem with Video Studio is that it's automatically decided that my file is upper field first, because I downloaded the trial version of Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 9.0, and with that program it lets you change the field order to frame based. I can grab perfect stills... and work with it in progressive then. I need the same in Video Studio.

I know you can change field order when you export the files into different formats, but I need to change the field order on the import of these files.

I've uploaded a 1 minute clip shot in the 30p/24mbps mode from the new canon. It's 176 MB.

http://rapidshare.com/files/148179715/C ... p.zip.html

I hope someone has an answer for me! I don't want to change from Corel, or return this camera. Thanks in advance.

TimmyTutone · Post by **TimmyTutone** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:53 pm

You know guys..... I may be thinking about this wrong. I've been outputting that video file to different formats (DV, WMV 720pHD, DVD) all as progressive (field-based), and they're all looking really good. It makes sense when you think about how this interlacing is done (progressive segmented frame). This explains it more.

http://www.elurauser.com/articles/canon ... _modes.jsp

Now, I WON'T beable to grap stills in VS11.5+ because the program thinks this is normally interlaced video,and they look awful, but I can frameserve the files in to virtualdubmod and grab stills from there.

Do you guys think I'm on the right track with my thinking on the progressive output for videos on this file?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:36 pm

Frankly, I don't know. I downloaded your file, but then -- again frankly -- I didn't know what you wanted us to do with it. It showed Upper Field First, and apart from re-rendering it to a Frame Based file, that was all I could think of.

Worse, I have to confess I could not work out how to do that and retain the original properties apart from the field order... I have never discovered a way with VS11 or now VS12 to make a template completely the way I wanted it for AVCHD. And the only one I could make for yours was exactly the same properties i.e. with UFF.

Now I don't know anything either about the latest greatest frame rate video from the Canon range except that my Core 2 Quad has difficulty playing them in either Clip or Project mode. Yours was the same. Yet when I changed the .mts extension to .mpg, it played beautifully and smoothly in both PowerDVD and WinDVD.

But again, I have no idea how to capture using Frame Based settings in VS. Does Canon provide a capture program on its installation CD with the camera? If so, then you could use that to capture using Frame Based. But from reading about 24p type video in Canon -- and I suspect 30p would probably be much the same -- on other forums, there seems to be general agreement like what you already assumed: namely that Canon does something a little different with that format...

TimmyTutone · Post by **TimmyTutone** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:00 pm

Thanks Ken. Canon's program grabbed it at UFF too, so I'm just going to uninstall it, and continue copying over the entire AVCHD folder like I always do. VS handles them well that way.

I really think I figured it out. You're right (I think).... for AVCHD output or HDV output I'd use UFF, but for anything else I use frame based output. If anyone knows if I'm on the right track with these 30p files I'd love to hear from ya.

As for the stuttering playback, timeline.... I've always just made my AVCHD files into DV files, and did my editing in Premiere 6.5 writing down my time cut places and editing audio if needed. Then I cut the AVCHD files, added the new audio and did my transitions in VS11.5+, so that never bothered me, but yeah... these are going to drag much much slower then the 1440x1080 13Mbps files I'm use to with my old AVCHD camera. I use to make proxy files just so I could grab stills with. Now I won't have to, since VS isn't an option with this 30p format for grabbing stills. It will actually save time not making proxy files now.

lion2008 · Post by **lion2008** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:25 pm

TimmyTutone wrote:Thanks Ken. Canon's program grabbed it at UFF too, so I'm just going to uninstall it, and continue copying over the entire AVCHD folder like I always do. VS handles them well that way.

I really think I figured it out. You're right (I think).... for AVCHD output or HDV output I'd use UFF, but for anything else I use frame based output. If anyone knows if I'm on the right track with these 30p files I'd love to hear from ya.

I have done some testing with the Canon footage in VSx2 and some reading about AVCHD-specifications: I understand that in AVCHD, 1080p30 simply is not specified as a standard. This makes it impossible to playback a AVCHD-video in 1080p30 AS SUCH with any Blu-Ray-Player: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008848. You always have to pass via 1080i60 and have to find a Player which weaves the 1080i60 correctly back to 1080p30, then doubles the frame rate to 1080p60 for output via HDMI. If the Blu-Ray-Player is not able to do so - what is very likely to happen - then you should let pass a 1080i60-signal to the display or video processor (if any) and see whether this device can handle it.

For me, this is confirming your observations: it explains why Canon had to transform the 1080p30-signal into a 1080i60-file (more precise: 1080@60psf) for storage. On the other hand, video software like VSx2 should correctly weave the two fields back to one frame if your choosing a progressive format ("no fields") as output. But in order to ensure the proper playback of that progressive file, the compression must not be AVCHD ! I have made some testing with an MPEG2-1080p30-output via "create a video file" and "custom". This file could then even be burned to a Blu-Ray-folder or Hd-DVD-folder without re-encoding !