Alludo USER to USER Web Board

Hi guys
Hope this will be last time I have to trouble you for a while.
A couple of things as this is the first time I've used smartscene and 16x9.

I have created several DVDs of the project I am working on as I have had a problem in 2 areas. On some of the DVDs I have made the submenu chapters do not work. When I select (from the star at the top of the main menu) the submenu page I can see the chapters 1,2,3 etc but when I drop the curser onto any one of them the DVD closes and goes back to the blue screen that shows 'DVD'. In these cases it is possible to play the DVD using the arrow on the main menu page and once it is up and running you can then forward through the chapters in the normal way by using the fast forward button on the control.
On the remaining DVDs the chapters each work individually and will show the scene that is being selected.. I can't see that I am doing anything differently on 3 out of the 6 I've tried so far apart from editing the 'chapter' boxes. Would editing the 'Chapter' box have any adverse affect or is there something else that I should be doing?

The other reason for making so many DVDs from the same project is that some appear to be more jerky in movement than others, a little like the old silent films but not nearly so bad. It seems to be luck of the draw whether the finished product runs smoothly, as some do, or jerkily. I am using Mov. files.
Any ideas please.

Lastly, it can take me several attempts to open my project. Sometimes for 4 or 5 times the project will open and then almost immediately, before I've had a chance to do anything, it will shut down again and I have to re-open from scratch.
Have you come across this before?

Cheers
Mark

MORE INFO REQUIRED!!

What version of Video Studio are you using?
What OS are you using?
What is your system Configuration?
What type of video file(s) are you working with?

Are you creating a video file on a LOGICAL Hard drive or straight to DVD?

Are you creating an IMAGE of your project to Hard Drive before burning to DVD?

MOV Files SHOULD be converted to a better editing format using a program like SUPER?

Apart from the questions that Accolades has already asked, it would be extremely helpful if you could tell us where the .mov files came from. And could you please right click on one of them inside Video Studio, please, either in the timeline or library window, and copy ALL its contents here please. Then we will have a better idea of what we are dealing with.

However, Accolades is quite correct that .mov files can present various difficulties for editing, and it is usually better to convert them to one of the standard files more commonly used for DVDs, namely either mpeg-2 or DV/AVI, before proceeding much further with them.

This is even more so if, as I suspect you may be, you are editing MOV files, then instead of first converting your project to a DVD-compatible mpeg-2, you are instead finishing your editing and jumping straight to the burning module with your .mov-based project. So it would also be useful to get details of what you did during the editing phase...

Hi guys
Many thanks for your responses. Sorry to be so late coming back to you and with providing you with so little technical information before hand.

I am using a JVC Everio hard disk camcorder on ultra fine setting.
My OS is XP home edition and I am using Ulead VS10.

For editing I have dragged and dropped the MOV images from a folder into the timeline, trimmed many of them and 'saved the trimmed video' sequences to the library.

I have now viewed each one and they all have similar properties:

An example file name would be MOV004.MOD

File format is PALDVD followed by file size and duration.

Video type is Mpeg-2 video, upper field first, followed by total frames.
Attributes are 24bits. 720x576 16x9
Frame rate 25 per second
Data Rate Variable bit date rate (max 9200kbps)


Audio Type is Dolby Digital Audio followed by number of samples
Attributes 48000 hz
Layer none
Bit Rate 384 kbps
I am not sure from this info whether Ulead has converted to the above Mpeg type or is suggesting that this will be the final edited type of file.

If I need to convert all the Mov.Mod files prior to creating the DVD is it possible for me to select only the files I have on the timeline or will have to start the project from scratch, having to convert all of the original length files that were dragged and dropped into the folder on my hard drive?

I have an A/V Replay Converter and did a conversion of one of these files as a test. The original Mov file was 30.4mb and the converted Mpeg 2 file,
converted as high quality 2000kbps, was only 8.3mb. Would this suggest a loss of overall quality being a much smaller file??

On one of the DVDs I created the folders before burning and have a Video_ts folder with several .BUP .VOB and .IFO files in it but, to be honest, my knowledge of these things is limited and I really am not sure what these files represent. I also have an Audio_ts folder that appears to be empty.
In addition I have a zipped finished DVD.iso file and a finished DVD.iso.adp file which I seem unable to open.

I had thought that all these files were there for reference after the burning event rather than being some kind of preparation prior to burning.
Maybe I am misunderstanding this part of Accolades comments but I am limited by my lack of technical expertise, apologies.

Once at the Burn stage in every case the Create to Disc and Normalise Audio boxes have been checked and in just one of the series of DVDs I have made I have also checked the boxes for Create DVD Folders and Create Disc Image referred to above.

I hope this is of some use and really appreciate your time and effort in helping me through this.
Regards
Mark

Aha! So they are really .mod files, and not .mov files as you originally suggested. That is a whole different kettle of fish! For some reason or other, JVC developed this format as a variant of the standard mpeg-2. (They did the same thing with high definition cameras which produce a format with the .tod extension!) Anyway, later versions (11.5+ and X2) can deal natively with .mod files and now .tod files as well. But VS10 did have problems with them. Some people simply changed the .mod extension to .mpg and it seemed to work for them, but not for everyone! Anyway, one of our users developed his own small software program to quickly convert the code used in the .mod so that it becomes standard .mpg. You can find the link here: http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 347#138347

Hi Ken
Thanks for the advice.
My apologies again.
Just to clarify, whether I use the SD copy converter or my own Replay converter is there likely to be a loss of picture quality with these smaller sized files and is there any way I can extract just the parts of the files I have used on my timeline or do I really have to convert everything first and start the whole project over again?
If the latter then it's a much longer exercise but a useful learning curve!!
Regards
Mark

I'm afraid I have never heard of the Replay converter, so have no idea of what it does, what formats it uses or what manner of compression it may apply. By the sounds of it, though, if it is producing (significantly?) smaller files, it is either converting them to another format other than DVD-compatible mpeg-2, or else is using heavier compression and producing mpeg-2 which is much smaller, and thus of lesser quality than the original .mod version of mpeg-2. It might say 'high quality' but for mpeg-2, a bitrate of 2000 kbps is in fact incredibly low quality. That is why I think it has converted to some other format completely, which is not good. You could right click on the converted file within Video Studio, and copy ALL its properties here, if you want, and we can see what's what...

The program link I sent you, on the other hand, only converts the code used in the flags of the .mod files, and otherwise leaves the video itself alone. So with that, you will merely get a change of extension from .mod to .mpg and some invisible code differentials. But the quality should be the same as the original, and the size either identical or only a few bytes the difference.

As for whether you should apply either of these programs to just what you have in your timeline, or to the whole of the original video, it depends on how you have gone about things. But I suspect you have gone the default way, and simply put video in your timeline, cut out bits you didn't want, added transitions etc. But the problem is that any of the editing you have done, including the cuts and deletions, are only 'virtual' -- they are not real. So what you see in the timeline are not several separate, real cut and edited files but virtual, edited parts of the original real file! A bit difficult to take in, I know, but that is the nature of the type of non-linear editing program that Video Studio is.

A consequence of this is that to convert your files, it has to be done outside Video Studio in the separate program. And since you don't have *real* files in the timeline, the only thing you can convert is the whole original file! So unless someone else has a better idea, I fear you are going to have to do that conversion, then start all over again -- though hopefully with better results. You might, however, want to preserve your current project, then do your conversion of the original file(s) which you will find untouched wherever you stored them. Then you could do a new smaller test project just to see if things work better.

Good luck!

Thanks Ken
I have, in fact, converted all the Mov files in my folder (incredibly quick for 7gbs) using the link you provided and, indeed, the files are all of a similar size to the originals.
I then started a new project with the converted file saving all of the edited video clips in the correct order within the library.
Once I was able to open the previous project (after several attempts) which used the original mov files I was then able to delete all of these and drag the new mpeg files down from the library, thus I was able to use all the stills, titles, overlays and music from the previous project, which would have taken a long time to process afresh.
I am currently burning a DVD and will let you know what happens but it does appear that all the chapters are working. The movement quality I will be able to determine on completion.
Thanks again for your kind help.
Regards
Mark

PS My reply converter is part of my Applian Technologies Replay Radio, which allows me to download radio shows and convert them for use in my Ipod. I have not used it for the above conversions.

One thing you could do to avoid wasting discs (no matter how cheap they are these days) is, instead of burning to an actual disc on the last page of the VS burning module, you instead choose 'DVD Folder'. This will create the exact structure you will find on a real DVD. But the advantage is that you can play it on a software player like WinDVD or PowerDVD to see if everything is playing the way it should. Then if it is, you can use a program like Nero or Roxio to burn the folder to an actual DVD. If not, you do it all again, but you have saved a disc!

Some people prefer to 'burn' a disc image .iso file instead of a DVD Folder. That is much the same, but is more complicated to play back as you have to have a program which can 'mount' the .iso file on a virtual drive before you can play it in a software player.

Or, of course, you could use a rewritable disc!

Hi Ken
Thanks for that response. I had wondered what those files were for!!

Since my last post I am beginning to wonder whether I have a fault with my programme as at least 2 of my attempts to burn a dvd have been stopped mid-session, with everything (even the 'cancel' button) freezing and I have had to shut the programme down via the Task Manager and start completely from scratch. I've also been unfortunate enough to have 2 dodgy discs where the project was unable to burn to DVD after nearly 2 hours of preparation on each.

More of a perplexing problem for me at the moment are the chapters.
I have now successfully burned 2 versions of my 90 minute dvd but in both versions the chapters do not work. When I go from the main menu page to the submenu page by selecting the 'star' it opens ok with the image of the first chapter but when I try to scroll down to the 2nd or 3rd chapters the programme shuts down and I am put back to the blue DVD screen.

I have done one dvd of 16x9 GQ which came out at 2.75 (2.95gb) and one at 16x9 HQ. This was 4.58 (4.92gb) but reduced to fit at 4.31 (4.63gb).

The latter is of far better quality which is obvious on the transitions and fade-to-blacks. The still images (to which I have applied motion) and the video clips are very good and run smoothly, without the jerkiness I had experienced with the Mov files but I am at a loss to know what to do about the chapters.

Both dvds play perfectly well and it is possibly to 'forward' to each chapter using the skip button.

When preparing each dvd for burning i tested them on the preview facility using the virtual remote control and, at that stage, the chaper menus worked perfectly on both discs.

This fault, together with those mentioned above leads me to susppect I may have a bug in my programme although one of the earlier .mov dvds did mange to have the chapters working on the finished article but the motion was bad and I could not use it.

When choosing colour or font size for the menu pages I can recall from VS9 that you could apply your choice to all pages (just like the music etc.) but I don't see that facility on VS10 and have been doing each item seperately. Is there a better way?

On a seperate issue, I now realise that copies of all the video clips are saved to a Ulead folder which was created within My Docs. As I already have all of these in the original subject file (to where I had cut and pasted the original files from the camera and to where I saved all the converted mpeg files) I effectively have all of them duplicated, which takes up precious space on my hard drive.
What am I risking if I delete all the files from the Ulead folder? I don't want to find at some time in the future that the project is unable to locate the files, but equally don't feel I need everything twice.

Many thanks, hopefully I am nearly there!

Regards
Mark

I then started a new project with the converted file saving all of the edited video clips in the correct order within the library.
Once I was able to open the previous project (after several attempts) which used the original mov files I was then able to delete all of these and drag the new mpeg files down from the library, thus I was able to use all the stills, titles, overlays and music from the previous project, which would have taken a long time to process afresh.
I am currently burning a DVD and will let you know what happens but it does appear that all the chapters are working. The movement quality I will be able to determine on completion.

After you replaced the original mov files with the converted ones, did you re-save the project? If not, VS might still be recognizing the old mov files. I know it will probably be a lot of work, but if I were you I would start from scratch with the new files and see what happens.

Mark, Mark, Mark --- Please please please STOP calling your original files .mov files. They are .MOD files which are totally different. Your calling them mov files will only confuse other users who have only read the later posts in this thread...

Anyway, I am not sure what is wrong with your chapter set-up. Normally, when people have trouble in that part of the program, my first instinct is to tell them to update DirectX from the Microsoft site. The current one is dated August 2008 and can be found at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en
Note that it updates both DirectX 9.0c (XP) and 10 (Vista). The number of your DirectX installation will not change, but the patch gives extra functionality in a number of areas and corrects other faults in VS which appear linked to Windows updates. The menu preview , 'building preview graph' and other problems in the burning module seem to be amongst them. I am not sure this is your problem as you seem to be able to preview without problem, but it's worth trying and your computer will probably thank you anyway ...

Note that DirectX is not included in the usual pattern of Windows automatic updates. It has to be done every so often by the user manually. So unless you have recently done this, you are probably still using the original, non-updated version of DirectX which came with your computer.

Another thought I had is to wonder whether, after you have converted your MOD files, and done your edits, do you first -- as we recommend -- then convert your project to a single new DVD-compatible mpeg-2 (Share > Create Video File)? Or do you jump straight to the burning module (Share > Create Disc)? If you do the latter, then in fact your project file is inserted in the burning timeline, rather than video, and following this workflow often causes problems for some users (though works perfectly well for others!) Remember I am just trying to touch all bases here. But if you are indeed following this workflow, then Black Lab's suggestion has even more relevance.

Note that if your follow our suggested workflow, then after you produce your new mpeg-2, you go to File > New Project. Don't worry about giving your new project a name. The objective is just to clear the timeline of your current project.

Once that is done, you select Share > Create Disc > DVD. The burning module will open. Use the Add Media button at the top to insert your new mpeg-2 in the burning timeline. Then go to the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen. There is a little box beside the words 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files'. Make sure that box is ticked (it usually is by default). That way, your already compliant mpeg file will not be re-encoded. Then build your menus and burn.

As for applying your fonts -- and other settings -- to all menu pages, I am pretty sure that in VS10, once you have chosen the font on the main page and got that OK, you go to the button below it (Layout Settings -- a little over half way down the left hand side of screen) and that allows you to 'Apply to all pages of this menu'.

Apart from that, though, I can only suggest you have a look at the Tutorial section of this Board, where I am sure there are detailed instructions on building chapters... IIRC, it is probably in Steve Jones' magnum opus on the entire editing process 'from DV to DVD'...

markpritch wrote:..........
Once at the Burn stage in every case the Create to Disc and Normalise Audio boxes have been checked and in just one of the series of DVDs I have made I have also checked the boxes for Create DVD Folders and Create Disc Image referred to above.
.....

I recently burned a DVD having ticked the normalise audio option
(This was with MovieFactory 7 Pro - the sister product of VideoStudio)
and there was a problem - cannot remember off hand what it was.
I unticked that box and this time it burned and performed perfectly.

Worth trying that as a possible cure. I would also suggest burning to a hard drive folder rather than a disc so that you don't waste any.

Regarding MOD/MOV files - it might be advisable to convert them to MPEG2 first using Super - a freeware program that converts almost anything into almost anything.

On a seperate issue, I now realise that copies of all the video clips are saved to a Ulead folder which was created within My Docs. As I already have all of these in the original subject file (to where I had cut and pasted the original files from the camera and to where I saved all the converted mpeg files) I effectively have all of them duplicated, which takes up precious space on my hard drive.

What am I risking if I delete all the files from the Ulead folder? I don't want to find at some time in the future that the project is unable to locate the files, but equally don't feel I need everything twice.

I suddenly realised I hadn't answered this portion of your last post. And the answer is... it all depends on where Video Studio thinks the files in your project are! First, check what you have in File > Preferences > General as you working folder. I bet it is the default working folder you described in the My Documents folder...

If so, that then begs the question of where you captured your original files to from the JVC. Did you save them to a particular folder other than the working folder above? If so, I am curious to know how "copies of all the video clips" got into two places. If you save your captured files initially to another folder, Video Studio doesn't automatically copy them to the working folder. All that goes there otherwise are the project file, temporary files generated during editing and rendering, and the final rendered version of the project unless you have specified a different target for that.

Until you have worked all this out, I would be very wary of trying to manually remove what you might think are all the relevant files to another computer, because Video Studio might have another lot in mind. At the very least you will be asked to re-link, but there is always the risk that there might be some differences between the two lots of files, and re-link will not work in that case.

You might also want to look at a new feature in VS11 called SmartPackage which saves a new project file and all relevant other files in one place to make it easy to transplant elsewhere. The command is File > SmartPackage. But have a look at the Help file or Manual first.

Hi Ken
I tried to preview a detailed response just now and lost my whole reply, so will be very brief.
The original files MOD files (apologies for previous confusion) were placed in a folder I created in my docs, as were the converted files. Yes I did re-save the finished project after substituting the mpeg versions but I also did burn direct from the project.
The other folder that contains my video clips is Ulead Videostudio where there is a subfolder called 10.0. The files inside 10.0 appear to be the edited and trimmed versions of the original (much larger) files that are in my (Home Video) folder on my docs. They also have a more recent 'modified' date and sub-numbers on them. So I guess I will keep both sets until I have fully finished with the dvd.

Last night I downloaded DirectX (thanks for that) and produced an mpeg 2 file of the project and today have burned a dvd from it, following your instructions to the letter.
On playing the finished DVd, although chapters and menus work perfectly, I find the video to be somewhat stretched so that all the people look extremely wide and I also have the letterbox effect on my wide screen tv which I did not have before. The still images fill the screen but the subjects still appear very wide.
Any idea what may have caused this?

I also feel the quality is not so good as the HQ dvd I burned directly from the project, it was only 3.64gb against the HQ version of a 'trimmed to fit' 4.63gb.

On the basis that the new Directx may have been responsible for curing the menu problem I may, in the meantime, try burning another disc direct from the project in HQ definition, just to see if it works.

Kind regards and thanks for your continued patience.
Mark