X2 AVCHD SmartRender problems

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:53 am

michal_h -- do you have a website you can post a sample to? That is the only practical way I could get a sample from your camera. I would only need around 10 or 20 seconds. But I would be happy to test it for you...

SPSP1 · Post by **SPSP1** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:07 am

Ken Berry wrote:I am glad you have complained direct to Corel. But can I ask -- do you get those blips when using SmartRender, or without it as well?

I have never switched SmartRenderer disabled because I want to use it. But I can test it after some hours when I will be at home. I will try disabling the SmartProxy too.

My configuration is: Panasonic SD9 with 1920x1080x60i, 1920x1080x30p and 1440x1080x60i (no one else). I have nvidia 9800GT and Core2 Quad with 4 GB RAM on Vista 32 EN Ultimate. I have no problem with power during the video editation.

I must confirm now that the output problems are only with the AVCHD (SmartRenderer is enabled, next tests without it will be after some hours). The mpeg2 output is OK.

michal_h · Post by **michal_h** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:10 am

Ken Berry wrote:michal_h -- do you have a website you can post a sample to? That is the only practical way I could get a sample from your camera. I would only need around 10 or 20 seconds. But I would be happy to test it for you...

I uploaded files to rapidshare or if you need some different free server let me know
thanks

michal_h wrote:I tried to create file while smart proxy is disabled but have still the same bad result, the mistake is always at the the trasition start and end
There is no mistake if I create file without transition

Here are two files from my camcorder, would someone by so kind to test it in his/her CVS pro X2? (put the clips on timeline, use any transition, create file AVCHD PAL HD 1920 and see the result)

http://rapidshare.com/files/152026040/00003.MTS.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/152026427/00005.MTS.html

michal_h · Post by **michal_h** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:16 am

SPSP1 wrote:
Ken Berry wrote:I am glad you have complained direct to Corel. But can I ask -- do you get those blips when using SmartRender, or without it as well?
I have never switched SmartRenderer disabled because I want to use it. But I can test it after some hours when I will be at home.

My configuration is: Panasonic SD9 with 1920x1080x60i, 1920x1080x30p and 1440x1080x60i (no one else). I have nvidia 9800GT and Core2 Quad with 4 GB RAM on Vista 32 EN Ultimate. I have no problem with power during the video editation.

I must confirm now that the output problems are only with the AVCHD (SmartRenderer is enabled, next tests without it will be after some hours). The mpeg2 output is OK.

maybe it is not neccessary to make tests with smart render disabled I have already make it with the same bad results

BTW: why do you use 60i if you are in CZ?

SPSP1 · Post by **SPSP1** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:21 am

I must append that the MS Windows Vista Ultimate EN SP1 has problems with the output AVCHD file from the Corel VideoStudio (mpeg extension). When I hover mouse cursor on the file in the explorer window then the explorer process crashed and Vista restarted this explorer process again. That generated file must be very bad (maybe the time and frame count attributes?).

When I play it using WinDVD 9, the WinDVD crashed at the moment of the end of first titles.

SPSP1 · Post by **SPSP1** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:31 am

michal_h wrote:
SPSP1 wrote:
Ken Berry wrote:I am glad you have complained direct to Corel. But can I ask -- do you get those blips when using SmartRender, or without it as well?
I have never switched SmartRenderer disabled because I want to use it. But I can test it after some hours when I will be at home.

My configuration is: Panasonic SD9 with 1920x1080x60i, 1920x1080x30p and 1440x1080x60i (no one else). I have nvidia 9800GT and Core2 Quad with 4 GB RAM on Vista 32 EN Ultimate. I have no problem with power during the video editation.

I must confirm now that the output problems are only with the AVCHD (SmartRenderer is enabled, next tests without it will be after some hours). The mpeg2 output is OK.
maybe it is not neccessary to make tests with smart render disabled I have already make it with the same bad results

BTW: why do you use 60i if you are in CZ?

OK. But I have different camera than you have and the two minute test is not problem for me. (I have some family holidays AVCHD videos in directories waiting to editing... this is problem.

)

At NTSC, I have my camera from the US and NTSC or PAL is transparent in view of PCs and HDMI TVs. And 60i and especially 30p is better for me.

michal_h · Post by **michal_h** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:43 am

SPSP1 wrote:I must append that the MS Windows Vista Ultimate EN SP1 has problems with the output AVCHD file from the Corel VideoStudio (mpeg extension). When I hover mouse cursor on the file in the explorer window then the explorer process crashed and Vista restarted this explorer process again. That generated file must be very bad (maybe the time and frame count attributes?).

When I play it using WinDVD 9, the WinDVD crashed at the moment of the end of first titles.

try to install ffdshow:
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

and haali media splitter:
http://haali.cs.***/mkv/

I don't know why but haali's web page is wrongly written after submitting my post, use first link here:
http://www.google.cz/search?hl=cs&q=haa ... 1&oq=haali

SPSP1 · Post by **SPSP1** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:39 am

michal_h wrote:
SPSP1 wrote:I must append that the MS Windows Vista Ultimate EN SP1 has problems with the output AVCHD file from the Corel VideoStudio (mpeg extension). When I hover mouse cursor on the file in the explorer window then the explorer process crashed and Vista restarted this explorer process again. That generated file must be very bad (maybe the time and frame count attributes?).

When I play it using WinDVD 9, the WinDVD crashed at the moment of the end of first titles.
try to install ffdshow:
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

and haali media splitter:
http://haali.cs.-/mkv/

I don't know why but haali's web page is wrongly written after submitting my post, use first link here:
http://www.google.cz/search?hl=cs&q=haa ... 1&oq=haali

Thank you for tips. But I don't think that the explorer crashing is about codecs because explorer crashed when it working on showing info about the file in the tooltip. So I don't want to install the open source when I have WinDVD 9 that is capable to play H.264 videos. I want to have minimal count of DirectX filters installed only due to the clean system.

And about the WinDVD crashing - the first part of the output video has been played OK but the crash place is at the titles end. That place is where the Corel VideoStudio SmartRenderer started to copy of the original video stream during the mpeg has been generated.

Of course if that opensource codecs solve problems with Corel VS AVCHD output I will install them. But I don't think so.

erdna · Post by **erdna** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:45 am

Black Lab wrote:
... when there are users who can edit and burn AVCHD with no problems.

Yes, when they use footage from outdated (no longer available) cams. All recent (mine is almot 1 year old !) Sonys, Panasonics. Canons apparently produce AVCHD files were Corel can't cope with. Do the Corel designers only have older stuff/knowledge available when testing their programs?

SPSP1 · Post by **SPSP1** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:54 am

erdna wrote:
Black Lab wrote:
... when there are users who can edit and burn AVCHD with no problems.
Yes, when they use footage from outdated (no longer available) cams. All recent (mine is almot 1 year old !) Sonys, Panasonics. Canons apparently produce AVCHD files were Corel can't cope with. Do the Corel designers only have older stuff/knowledge available when testing their programs?

...we are paying users! And there is AVCHD announced in the features on the Corel web site. The AVCHD editation process of the last VideoStudio is capable too. But only there is something wrong inside the output file.

Efenstor · Post by **Efenstor** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:28 pm

This discussion reminds me of the quarrels on my ISP's site forum: "I've paid, why they can't deliver what they promised!". But that's the way it is: asks are not always heard and promises take time to be made.

By the way, I'm in Russia and have an NTSC camcorder too. 24p + 30p + 60i is better than 25p + 50i, for example, 60i turned into 24p (deinterlaced) looks like a very nice slow motion.

dalemccl · Post by **dalemccl** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:19 pm

michal_h wrote:
Ken Berry wrote:michal_h -- do you have a website you can post a sample to? That is the only practical way I could get a sample from your camera. I would only need around 10 or 20 seconds. But I would be happy to test it for you...
I uploaded files to rapidshare or if you need some different free server let me know
thanks

michal_h wrote:I tried to create file while smart proxy is disabled but have still the same bad result, the mistake is always at the the trasition start and end
There is no mistake if I create file without transition

Here are two files from my camcorder, would someone by so kind to test it in his/her CVS pro X2? (put the clips on timeline, use any transition, create file AVCHD PAL HD 1920 and see the result)

http://rapidshare.com/files/152026040/00003.MTS.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/152026427/00005.MTS.html

I downloaded your two files, put them in the timeline, duplicated them 3 times to make a longer video, and put 1 second fade-to-black transitions between each clip. I tried to create an AVCHD file with smart render disabled and also to create an AVCHD disc directly from the timeline. Pro X2 was unable to create the file or the disc. It got stuck in the encoding process at 7% and just stayed there for an hour, even though Windows's Task Manager showed it was using 25% CPU all that time. I am guessing it could be because the clips are PAL and I am using NTSC. (Now that I think about it, the disc I was trying to make wouldn't have played on my Blu-ray player anyway since the player is NTSC.)

But the reason I am posting, despite the lack of success in creating a file, is that your clips played in Pro X2 without choppiness, both when playing from the library and from the timeline in clip mode. These are 1920x1080 AVCHD PAL clips. My AVCHD 1920x1080 NTSC clips from my Sony SR-11 play with choppiness in clip mode. I wonder why your clips play smoothly.

michal_h · Post by **michal_h** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:41 pm

Efenstor wrote:By the way, I'm in Russia and have an NTSC camcorder too. 24p + 30p + 60i is better than 25p + 50i, for example, 60i turned into 24p (deinterlaced) looks like a very nice slow motion.

are you using progressive mode? in my opinion converting 60fps iterlaced to 24fps progressive dosn't make any sense

but it's offtopic

michal_h · Post by **michal_h** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:54 pm

SPSP1 wrote:And about the WinDVD crashing - the first part of the output video has been played OK but the crash place is at the titles end. That place is where the Corel VideoStudio SmartRenderer started to copy of the original video stream during the mpeg has been generated.

Of course if that opensource codecs solve problems with Corel VS AVCHD output I will install them. But I don't think so.

of course i can't guarantee that install will solve your problem but these two utilities solved my problem with playing different video files (not only h264).

btw there are not codecs, one is filter and other is splitter...i agree that installling codecs like all in one etc is madness

SPSP1 · Post by **SPSP1** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:44 pm

As I promised to Ken Berry I tested now. We are focusing on the AVCHD output file that is the same as the input file. At the first 3 sec I put the Titles as overlay and the whole video has size about 1 minute. The output file with the SmartProxy and without it is the same (I have some ideas about the bad frames in the output file due to the different frames counting in the proxy file - 24 opposite to 60). Next, the output file generated with using the SmartRender has a bug as I wrote before. But the output file generated with SmartRender switched off can be played OK without any problems.

As result I have wrong output file with the SmartRender enabled only. So I think there is an error in SmartRender only.

The time of generating process with Smart Render enabled is a two times faster than without it on my machine. But in the case of longer video the time of generation without the SmartRender will be notably longer than with SmartRender enabled.

Some parts of generation process didn't use every my cpu cores (4) but only a half. It is one of future ways of VideoStudio improving possibly. And what about the GPU using?

What is your opinion on Movie Edit Pro 14 and especially next version 15 (today is the german version only with name Video Deluxe 15 Plus) that using the Smart Rendering and GPU for video processing? It is maybe challenge to Corel/Ulead and good message for users.