X2 AVCHD SmartRender problems

[bankroot]

It is well known, that AVCHD is very, very hard for editing (as oposite to HDV).
Main problem is: why Corel didn't say about it in Pro X2 features ?????

[Black Lab]

You are all forgetting that people like Ken Berry and Etech use AVCHD but don't seem to have the problems that you are experiencing. It is true that AVCHD is very demanding when it comes to computer resources. Since the AVCHD format is still very new, and the fact that other people can successfully edit and output AVCHD, my inclination is that the problem lies with hardware/software incompatibilities. All of the blame cannot be laid at Corel's feet.

[Efenstor]

the problem lies with hardware/software incompatibilities. All of the blame cannot be laid at Corel's feet.

Sure, but where is the solution?

[bankroot]

Let me to disagree with you a little bit, Jeff.
Canon is not a company from nowhere, it is main player (next to Sony and Panasonic) on camcorder market, so if my camcorder was released about May 2008 and Pro X2 a couple of months later ,it is strange for me, that they are incompatibile.
Every bundled software (doesn't matter if it is PMB for Sony, HD Writer for Panasonic or Pixela for Canon work very well in preview mode and transitions)

Grzegorz


PS. As I remember (maybe I am wrong) etech changes containers from mts to avi before editing

[erdna]

You are all forgetting that people like Ken Berry and Etech use AVCHD but don't seem to have the problems that you are experiencing. It is true that AVCHD is very demanding when it comes to computer resources. Since the AVCHD format is still very new, and the fact that other people can successfully edit and output AVCHD, my inclination is that the problem lies with hardware/software incompatibilities. All of the blame cannot be laid at Corel's feet.

Can the people you mention plse run the files provided by michal_l ? If they don't have the same problems we all get, that would be wonderfull and the basis for a solution.

[Ken Berry]

I think blame can probably be widely shared. Yes, the camera companies provide some basic software that works well with the video from their cameras, but most users agree it is basic. Equally, however, they are not out there telling people (1) that AVCHD *is* a difficult format to edit, and (b) that even to have a chance, you need a pretty powerful computer. But equally, the software companies have still got a long way to go before their products can deal adequately with the format too -- even though it has been on the market now for an increasing amount of time.

One of the main problems, I suspect, is much the same as we still encounter -- and have been encountering for years -- with analogue capture devices. It is such a big market that each hardware company wants to make money from it. So they produce hardware which only works properly with *their* software... or they have tweaked someone else's software to work with their hardware. But they don't share the proprietary secrets with the software companies who have to scramble around trying to do the best they can without direct cooperation from the hardware companies.

Moreover, with the AVCHD format being so relatively new, it is inevitable that the 'Big 3' -- Sony, Canon and Panasonic -- will still be developing the format their own way, to give each of them 'the edge' over the others. We have only recently had the international AVCHD standard change, for instance, to raise the maximum bitrate from 18 Mbps to 24 Mbps, and Canon jumps in quickly with that new range on one of its cameras -- and of course software, like VS, developed for the old standard, can't cope. Panasonic, for its part, has developed a new codec for AVCHD which may partly account for the problems its users are having with the SD9 range with other brand software as that proprietary secrret too has not been shared.

Sony, for once, does not seem -- as yet, anyway -- to be experimenting too much. But a complication there is that Sony is also a major competitor in the software stakes, and I am not sure that there are too many users of both AVCHD cameras and Sony Vegas or Sony Movie Studio Platinum who are particularly wild about those programs' abilities to deal with AVCHD "perfectly" either...

So, as I said at the outset, there is plenty of room for blame to be shared all round. None of us regulars here on this Board work for Corel. We are simply users like yourself who try to share their experience, and find work-arounds for identified problems. But we are not camera hardware or software engineers. And while it is fine to vent and rage here about this or that problem, the only effective way of getting the software changed is to complain directly to Corel...

[erdna]

To Ken:
Agree that the camcorder boys have there own encoder flavors. Do you happen to know to which brand/camcorder type- if any - the Corel SW has been designed/tested to. I think that Corel's X2 can't handle any "flavor" correctly when it comes to AVCHD. They pretend though...
To Black lab:
Ken's post implicitely shows that they have problems too.

[Ken Berry]

I have AVCHD from one of the earlier Canons and some from an early Sony. VS11.5 and X2 can edit both. I also now have Canon HF11 and Panasonic SD9 footage, and neither program can handle it...

I also produce my own AVCHD from HDV footage using VS11.5 and now X2 -- again no problem.

[erdna]

Thanks Ken. What was the image resolution(1440x1080?) and data rate on the older cams ?

[SPSP1]

Editing and processing the AVCHD video in the Corel VideoStudio X2 is near perfect when I compared it with PowerDirector (How can I easy set the same output format as input clip in the PowerDirector?).

But the created output HD video with the same format as input clip is the BIG BIG problem in Corel VideoStudio X2. Probably due to the some bad frames inserted between rendered parts and bad time attributes.

Please for patch. I sended my message to the Corel today, so I will looking forward to positive reply.

[Ken Berry]

Evrything I have used had 1920 x 1080.

[Ken Berry]

I am glad you have complained direct to Corel. But can I ask -- do you get those blips when using SmartRender, or without it as well?

[Black Lab]

To Black lab:
Ken's post implicitely shows that they have problems too.

I suppose the "they" you are referring to is Corel. I never said Corel was exempt from the problems with AVCHD. In fact, I said "All of the blame cannot be laid at Corel's feet.", meaning, obviously, that some can. But you can't lay all of the blame on Corel, as some have, when there are users who can edit and burn AVCHD with no problems.

[michal_h]

...for instance, to raise the maximum bitrate from 18 Mbps to 24 Mbps, and Canon jumps in quickly with that new range on one of its cameras -- and of course software, like VS, developed for the old standard, can't cope

I understand if new canon hf11 with 24Mbps has some problems but as you can see I have the older one with 17Mbps...If it is possible try to make some test with my files and let me know the result
Thanks Michal

[bankroot]

In fact, I said "All of the blame cannot be laid at Corel's feet.", meaning, obviously, that some can. But you can't lay all of the blame on Corel, as some have, when there are users who can edit and burn AVCHD with no problems.

You are right.
Canon is guilty for continuous developing AVCHD, I am guilty for buying Pro X2 before testing trial versioin.
But, from the other hand I fullfiled EVERY requirements pointed out by Corel for using this application without ANY problem.
I've got very powerful machine, I payed almost 100 bucks, what else should I do ?

As a user I don't care about AVCHD nature and related problems in third party application. I spent my money and would like to have what I payed for.

I repeat, Corel should write information, that Pro X2 ihas a bug/bugs for camcorder as follows: <list of devices>.
When they improve application, info should be released: NOW this soft works for camcorders: <list of devices>.