X2 AVCHD SmartRender problems

[Efenstor]

AVCHD SmartRender is still imperfect in X2. In 11.5 Plus it was working worse, sometimes trimming ends of video segments, now it doesn't trim but gives erroneous frames near the stitches, even when there are no transitions. Or, to be more precise, these are not erroneous frames, but "mistimed" frames: portions of video (I think from about a half second to as small as one frame) taken a bit forward or backward in time, so that it looks either as a small repetition or a "snap". I think that decoder/encoder incorrectly determines the timecode around the keyframes or something like that. It happens always on videos shot with Canon HF100.

[Dabitz]

Try using Proxy files, it works smoothly for me.

[Efenstor]

I always use SmartProxy. I'm talking about glitches in the output file, not about editing, when I do editing it looks perfect.

[Efenstor]

I have discovered that if I pass a source MTS file through NeroVision (it has a SmartRender feature too) then the aformentioned problem dissapears! I have uploaded two files, the first is the original MTS file and the second is 100% the same but passed through the NeroVision SmartRender mechanism. What's the binary difference between them? I hope Corel will make a hotfix for this problem.

Original: http://www.efenstor.net/external/original.mts
Fixed with NeroVision: http://www.efenstor.net/external/fixed.mts

Hotfix is needed!

[etech6355]

You need to explain a little more about what the Video Bit Rates and parameters are of your videos.
Nero Vision will only smartrender 14,000kbs and below (for avchd disks).

Although I have also found that the latest release of Nero produces more compatible files for VS or MF to edit, but I don't see as good quality in the Nero encoder videos compared to VS or MF. My opinion VS or MF produces better quality.

You probably need to turn off smartrender, depends on how the Canon encodes them.

[Dabitz]

I just tried to render the first 2 minutes of the movie I am working on. I got sound but no video. Unbelievable, I tried Sony Vegas, now Corel's new version and nothing seems to be able to render AVCHD w/dolby 5.1 from a Sony HDR-UX7. This was using MPG optimizer option when rendering file. I am gonna try using WMV and report what happens. In my case I am working with Proxy files of AVCHD 5.1 sound. In my case they preview perfectly too, but rendering the file seems impossible.

[etech6355]

I would not try WMV, you want to produce real AVC videos don't you?. Same as your source footage. AVC is better than general WMV..
Going with WMV videos can get very very complex.

Please try this:
When your ready to render your project:
1) - Goto "Share -> Create Video File" -> AVCHD -> 1440x1080 (that should be your source videos, correct?
2) - IF the Mpeg Optimizer is displayed click on the "Cancel" Icon.
3) - In the next Save Screen Click on "Options" and set your video parameters to 70% - 100% compression 18MBS VBR Upper_Field_First etc. You should know all these options by now. You can also disable smart-render in the 1st screen under options. A setting of 18MBS VBR will yield an average of approx 12MBS VBR / Max 18MBS.
This should produce very nice looking video.
4) Exit the "Options" screen where you tailored your video/audio parameters.
5) Name and save the video, as the video is rendering if you want to see it displayed/previewed then click on the 'Play" Icon >.
You can toggle the previewing ON/OFF via this "Play" > Icon in the rendering box..

I find that depending on the type of project the mpeg optimizer may not work with avchd video. It's a very complex video codec.

[Dabitz]

My bad, my bad... It works well, it is just that the mpg it creates doesn't play on Windows Media player.

[Dabitz]

Etech, what does the "Smart Rendering" option do? Should I leave it enabled? I just played my test video over my PS3 and HDTV and it works fine, but it had some banding on white areas. I will be creating Blue-Ray eventually with about 1hr of movie.

Thanks so much.

[etech6355]

Dabitz,

If your using X2 Pro (even the trial version), click on the top right ? for the help manual. Smart rendering is explained in the included help manual ?. Seems to be a good manual with a lot of advice.

Also, read the "Read Me" file that comes with the program (accessible from the windows "Start -> Programs etc"

Depending on your project you may have to disable smart-rendering if your working with AVC video & directly editing it.

My work is usually with High Def Mpeg2 video which is mpeg video. The mpeg optimizer versus smart-rendering gets confusing as the mpeg optimizer may look at the first video file and use it's properties to render a new video file (you may not want these settings).
Either way if your working with High Def Mpeg2 video smart-render & the mpeg optimizer works pretty good.

If I owned an avchd cam I would first convert all my videos to a more editable format, such as High Def Mpeg2 video. VS edits and handles it well, especially in the PS (program stream) format.. Then after editing I either leave it as HighDef Mpeg2 video or convert it back to avchd video.
Many don't want to accept these conversions due to the required large file sizes, but that's the nature of the beast.
High Def Mpeg2 can go as high as 60,000kbs. Normally HDV video is 25,000kbs Constant bit Rate, but converting avchd to HDV one could use 25,000VBR. I stay with 25,0000 CBR (Constant bit Rate) because then it's HDV compliant.

You mention wanting to make Blu-Ray Discs for the PS3. What format do you intend to use on the Blu-Ray Disc.
An AVCHD disc can hold quite a lot of video if using 18,000VBR Max because the resulting video works out to be about 12,000kbs which is 90Megs per minute.
So a single layered dvd would be ( 4200Megs / 90Megs ) = 46 Minutes.
Not bad for .50 cents a dvd. You could also go Dual-Layer to almost double that capacity.

Sorry if I made this sound more confusing.
I can only say that these video editors are editing AVCHD only by consumer demand, because technically AVCHD is not an editable format.

Read this link: AVCHD Conversion
You can perform the same conversions using VS / X2 Pro to produce a more editable format. Either manually or using VS Batch Convert feature.
Actually VS Batch Convert will do exactly what that program does and X2 Pro retains the original filenames after conversion, as long as you convert them to a separate directory (and not the same as the source directories).

[Efenstor]

You need to explain a little more about what the Video Bit Rates and parameters are of your videos.
Nero Vision will only smartrender 14,000kbs and below (for avchd disks).

Although I have also found that the latest release of Nero produces more compatible files for VS or MF to edit, but I don't see as good quality in the Nero encoder videos compared to VS or MF. My opinion VS or MF produces better quality.

You probably need to turn off smartrender, depends on how the Canon encodes them.

The source bitrate is 18 mbps and Nero Vision smartrenders them perfectly. As to turning the smartrender off, of course it's always a solution but the worst one. What's the use to wait an hour to re-encode what has no need to be re-encoded? And yes, NV gives worse quality when encoding to AVC but still you need no eagle eye to see that your video quality has degraded after the needless re-encode even if it was VS with the best settings.

By the way, VS really works cool to convert AVCHD to, say, MJPEG/MCMP (which I prefer for its speed) but this is good for extensive editing, such as a music video or an independent movie, not for home video archives where to keep the source quality is the most important thing. Time passes and you always want to keep the most of your past. And also, when there is the SmartProxy feature it's not too much use of these to and fro conversions, may be only to process with the AviSynth/VirtualDub filters.

I resume: the compatibility hotfix is absolutely needed!

[tony62]

Etech6355 wrote

1) - Goto "Share -> Create Video File" -> AVCHD -> 1440x1080 (that should be your source videos, correct?
2) - IF the Mpeg Optimizer is displayed click on the "Cancel" Icon.
3) - In the next Save Screen Click on "Options" and set your video parameters to 70% - 100% compression 18MBS VBR Upper_Field_First etc.

In 3) when I click on 'Options' I do not see a menu to set my video parameters. Just check boxes. I am not using VS12 still VS11+.

I have no option to change the source VBR rate of 16 MBS. or compression %
What am I doing wrong?

[etech6355]

What am I doing wrong?

Your not using VS12_X2_Pro.
Give the trial version a go!

[tony62]

etech6355

1) - Goto "Share -> Create Video File" -> AVCHD -> 1440x1080 (that should be your source videos, correct?
2) - IF the Mpeg Optimizer is displayed click on the "Cancel" Icon.
3) - In the next Save Screen Click on "Options" and set your video parameters to 70% - 100% compression 18MBS VBR Upper_Field_First etc.

Would I gain any better quality by using the 2-pass render?
Time is not of the essence here! I do not care how long it takes. I am entering a HD film festival and I will be graded on the quality of the HD file which must be 1440 x 1080. So I want the best.
Thanks for your help

[Ken Berry]

I am sure etech will offer his own views, but for me personally, I never use either SmartRender or two pass encode for either HDV or AVCHD...