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Hey Ken,

I agree that VS in any form was not intended to be a replacement to MSP. But, because of our many discussions in both VS and MSP forums over the last two years I simply felt that we had almost been promised many more features in the form of a "Pro" version of VS and that the pro version of this VS X2 is nothing even close. Perhaps Corel should have called it VS basic and VS ultimate instead of standard and pro because there is nothing "pro" about VS.

I read the other post you listed and it makes me sad in a way... I remember the power we had when MSP supported third party filters and effects programs like Boris and Xplode from Canopus (what a pair Canopus and Ulead where back then).

Our input was asked for and I sure wanted certian features saved and passed over to VS from MSP (transitions in the overlay tracks and overlay clips for fade and transition effects are an example)... the features I wanted were features that leave me frustrated with programs like Avid, Vegas and Premier. I was wrong in hoping that the "Pro"version of VS would satisfy me in that way.

Pro this, pro that. The only thing that makes it "pro" is the ability and creativity of the user.

Give me a talented and creative editor using Windows Movie Maker and he will make a better video than a no-talent using Premier Pro.

MSP users need to stop crying. What's done is done. If what Corel has to offer is not good enough then please move on to something else.

Ya right, and I bet you can make gold from led too.....

If what Corel did is not good enough then I as the customer (their reason for doing business) have the right and obligation to ask them to do better! No crying here... just want better tools from the company that owns the right to them.

For many, other high end editors like Avid, Premier, Vegas are lacking in tools and user features that Corel ownes the rights too (in MSP for example). VS "Pro" was promised to be better and the needs and wants of high end editors who held on awaiting that promise were let down (IMHO).

Creativity and ability are all proportional to the tools and materials availbe to the artist.... do you think a the Mona Lisa would have been just as well if the artist was given water colors and cardboard to paint on? Go prove how great you are building a complex project in Windows movie maker...let's see you do 1/10th of what many need to do.

VS X2 is still VS with more and more "advanced" features being added from the high end editor programs proving that the needs and wants of the starting video enthusits are growing.

Corel failed to support a portion of the market in a product they purchased with Ulead - that was their choice and many either quit or moved on (with their money) to other company's who would support them (and many were forced to compromised to do this). Some dummied down to VS with the hope that some of the tools and features they loved in MSP would carry over. It sorta happened but not on the scale I hoped.

Imagine if Camera manufactors decided to stop producing SLR cameras when the market went to digital forcing the pros' and serious ametures to either go to more expensive medium format cameras or struggle with the smaller and limited point and shoot cameras. Camera manufactors know that there is a sizeable market out there for them to make good money on the DSLR camera and they are monopolyizing on it... too bad Corel didn't do that for the Prosumer video editing market.

Like I said, oh well.

You know I am using VS for my Videography job particularlly making wedding videos, and so far none of my clients complained that my products are inferior to anyone; and I know I have seen some wedding videos done by my competitors using vegas and premier ( I know that info from an insider) and I can tell you that they were "pathetic". So with VS and your imagination you can do wonders!
So I agree with Jeff that "The only thing that makes it "pro" is the ability and creativity of the user."

Stelios

If what Corel did is not good enough then I as the customer (their reason for doing business) have the right and obligation to ask them to do better! No crying here... just want better tools from the company that owns the right to them.

So complain to Corel and stop muddying up this forum. You know as well as anyone that reps from Corel rarely visit this forum, and I would hazard a guess that the ones that make the ultimate decisions never have and never will.

VS "Pro" was promised to be better and the needs and wants of high end editors who held on awaiting that promise were let down (IMHO).

It is better! It was NEVER promised that it would be a reincarnation of MSP.

Creativity and ability are all proportional to the tools and materials availbe to the artist.... do you think a the Mona Lisa would have been just as well if the artist was given water colors and cardboard to paint on?

YES! When compared to Joe Schmoe, which was precisely my point.

Go prove how great you are building a complex project in Windows movie maker...let's see you do 1/10th of what many need to do.

I never said I was great. But again, my comparison was a person with great talent using limited resources versus someone with limited talent using virtually unlimited resources.

Corel failed to support a portion of the market in a product they purchased with Ulead - that was their choice and many either quit or moved on (with their money) to other company's who would support them (and many were forced to compromised to do this). Some dummied down to VS with the hope that some of the tools and features they loved in MSP would carry over. It sorta happened but not on the scale I hoped. Imagine if Camera manufactors decided to stop producing SLR cameras when the market went to digital forcing the pros' and serious ametures to either go to more expensive medium format cameras or struggle with the smaller and limited point and shoot cameras. Camera manufactors know that there is a sizeable market out there for them to make good money on the DSLR camera and they are monopolyizing on it... too bad Corel didn't do that for the Prosumer video editing market.

I agree 100%. But obviously Corel is moving away from the high-end user. They just can't compete with the likes of Adobe, Apple and Sony (I'm speaking on a marketing level). I subscribe to a number of video editing magazine. Many of them have contests, and I have NEVER seen a winner of a contest use MSP or any other Ulead/Corel product. It's always Adobe, Apple or Sony. Not that MSP is an inferior product or its users are not as skilled, but it's a numbers game. There are many, many more users of Adobe, Apple or Sony. They have the market share, and apparently Corel doesn't want to spend the money it takes to run with the big boys.

Skyml, our perspectives are not that far off. I'm just tired of the MSP users still griping over it. Like I said, the milk is spilt. Clean it up and get a new glass.

Jeff,

I hope my comments rally support form other users in this forum to initiate change we want or need - as I said there is no crying here. You see I am trying to clean up the mess Corel left us and I did get a new glass as you said - VS Pro was going to be it and you are right, it is better then it was but just not in the way I had hoped.

Corel moved closer into our corner partially by listening to us here in this forum. Please don't confuse disappointment and desire with griping.

Mike

Then Mike, it might be better to start a new thread for your campaign, so your message doesn't get lost amongst all the banter surrounding the new release.

I would loved if Corel had included motion path in PIP. It is great feature which they could moved from MSP. Even lesser video editing software like cyberlink power director have had it since version 6. I hope people agree with me.

babdi wrote:I would loved if Corel had included motion path in PIP. It is great feature which they could moved from MSP. Even lesser video editing software like cyberlink power director have had it since version 6. I hope people agree with me.

I'm sure that there are many of us that agree 100%. However Corel and even Ulead has a "M.O" regarding features. They're not going to add but one or two per version. I've seen this since VS8. You ask for certain things, and it may be implemented 2-3 versions later. They're good at baiting the customers. Motion Paths were requested back in VS9, VS10, and VS11, along with cutting clips in overlay tracks, transitions in overlay tracks, and so on. If you would look at the previous versions, you could see that only a few are added at a time.

What is being overlooked here is that Tobie Openshaw created the following post duplicated in the VideoStudio and MediaStudio forums.

Your input please: MSP to VideoStudio "PRO"? (MediaStudio)
Your input please: VideoStudio "PRO"? (VideoStudio)

Now instead of our forum members all getting behind Tobie and giving him the support he required - He is after all just a cog in the wheel and so needs to evidence to the hierarchy a need for a "Pro" product and thus obtain the necessary funding and support. Instead the feedback was mostly negative and did not really help Tobie (to help us) much.

Tobie could have simply thrown in the towel but instead has soldiered on and as a result I am sure that VSX2 Pro is more powerful now that it would have otherwise been. (Thank you Tobie )

VSX2 is now the FIRST STEP towards making a new more powerful product more akin to MediaStudio. O.K. there is a long long way to go yet BUT those who have owned/used MediaStudio in the past are in a very powerful position by being able to make SENSIBLE and REALISTIC suggestions in our Wish List

Like Ron has pointed out - they appear to dribble out a few extras at a time. VS10 included extra video tracks. VS11 then introduced being able to make cuts to those video tracks. VSX2 now adds transitions to the overlay tracks.

So that we as a user group can get what we want we need to concentrate our efforts on what is the next most important item that we would want ported from MediaStudio. We are NOT going to get it all in one go.

My vote is that we make a push for "Moving Paths."

We now have a sort of resizable interface - again - nothing as elaborate as MSP8 - but slowly we are moving in the right direction.

I've just placed my order for the boxed version of VSPro Ultimate. I gather it's going to take best part of a week to get to me. Sad as I'd like to get started but I do like to have those discs handy for the inevitable reinstall that's going to happen sometime

But I really would like to give the news software a try right now (that delayed gratification stuff has just never worked for me).

So, any reason why I shouldn't download the TBYB version then install from the disks when they arive? Anyone done that? Does it create any kind of a problem using a downloaded TBYB then not downloading the full version?

That's what I am doing as I wait for my box (might be here today ). I would, however, recommend removing the trial version before installing the full version.

Thanks for the quick response, Jeff.

Can you remove the trial version without touching 11.5? ie remove it without removing any/all earlier versions?

Sure, I have versions 9, 10, and X2 on my machine.

Thanks for the kind words, sjjj, and yes, please keep that wish list going. Don't forget I am also a video editor, so moving paths is right up there for me too

Tobie