I just got VS 11.5 Plus and applied all patches to make it current.
Having a few problems and I want to make sure that I use the recommended workflow for AVCHD before tackling the problems.
I import 1920x1080i video (with DD 5.1 audio) using the software that came with my Sony SR11 AVCHD camcorder. I then bring the .m2ts files into the VS timeline. I want to do some trimming, add transitions, and add titles over color boards, but I don't anticipate doing much that would require re-encoding the video (like changing white balance or adjusting color, contrast etc.).
My goal is to get the 1920x1080i video and DD 5.1 audio the camcorder created plus the titles, transitions, etc. to an AVCHD 1920x1080i DVD+R for playing on my Blu-ray player, with no loss of quality.
Given that, should I edit, then go directly to "Create Disc", or should I edit, then create a video file, and then bring that file back into VS and burn it with "Create Disc"?
My only success so far has been with creating an interim file, but I fear there could be a loss of quality using the interim file. Skipping the interim file and going directly to Create Disc has resulted in a few problems on the disc (audio disaappearing part way into the disc, for example).
VS 11.5+ What is recommended workflow for AVCHD to DVD+R?
Moderator: Ken Berry
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Ken Berry
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First, I am assuming you are talking about a hybrid disc, rather than an archive disc. And if so, do you know if your Blu-Ray player is rated also to play hybrid discs. Not all of them are!
Second, it would be useful if you filled in your Profile so that we had some idea, by pressing on your System button, what sort of computer set-up you have. As you may be aware, AVCHD is the most demanding of all video formats on computer resources, and you need a pretty powerful computer just be able to play it smoothly.
Third, I guess you have already found that there is no way of getting Project Properties to automatically match those of your captured AVCHD files. Using "File > Preferences > Show message when inserting first clip in timeline" does not appear to work with AVCHD; nor can you manually set the project properties to match AVCHD; nor is there any obvious way to use Make Movie Template Manager to make an AVCHD template which uses Dolby 5.1 as the default AVCHD template uses dual channel stereo at best. (But see below.)
Well personally, I ignore the project properties side of things completely as it doesn't affect the properties of your AVCHD clips in the timeline while you are editing. It's what happens after that counts.
Next, I personally tend to edit, then simply jump to the burning module so that the project file is inserted in the burning module and any conversion that needs to take place occurs as part of the burning process. But this pre-supposes you have a powerful computer, and also that you have manually updated to the latest version of DirectX from the Microsoft website (current update is August 2008). I have never had any problems that way, though you will see from my System button that I have a Core 2 Quad. I also can't talk about whether using a DVD +R might have any effect as I always use -R blanks.
Now, if you want to go the more traditional way of editing then producing a new version of your AVCHD video, including its 5.1 audio, you need to make your own template. The only way I know how to do this is to click on Make Move Template Manager in the Tools tab. Select Add in the dialogue box which appears. Another box will appear. In the File Path window, click on the button to the right (with the 3 dots ...) and browse to where one of your captured AVCHD files is located and click on it. That file name will then appear in the window. In the window below that, give your new template a name e.g. AVCHD 5.1 or anything that will make it clear to you what it is. Then click OK, and then Close.
*****IMPORTANT: do NOT attempt to edit this new template in any way at any time. If you do, it will lose its properties, and you will have to start all over again. But once created, you can now use it after you finish editing, by selecting Share > Create Video File > AVCHD 5:1.
Note also that after you produce your new file, you go to File > New Project. Don't worry about giving your new project a name. The objective is just to clear the timeline of your current project.
Once that is done, you select Share > Create Disc > AVCHD. The burning module will open. Use the Add Media button at the top to insert your new file in the burning timeline. Then go to the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen. There is a little box beside the words 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files'. Make sure that box is ticked (it usually is by default). That way, your already compliant AVCHD file will not be re-encoded in any way. Then build your menu and burn.
I would also avoid using SmartRender in the conversion process after you finish editing. I and at least one other user (etech) have noticed anomalies creeping in when this is attempted with AVCHD. And no real need to worry about quality loss. Some will occur, but it will be microscopic, first because we are talking about the highest quality AVCHD video, and second, because only one conversion is not going to produce any degradation which is even remotely detectable by the human eye, especially since you are maintaining exactly the same high quality settings as the original.
Let us know how you get on. The results are worth it -- I play my own hybrid discs on my Sony PlayStation 3 which is a Blu-Ray player which can definitely play hybrid discs.
The other good thing about VS11.5+ in this regard is that you can also build menus for hybrid discs. Few of the other editing packages out there can do this as yet.
Second, it would be useful if you filled in your Profile so that we had some idea, by pressing on your System button, what sort of computer set-up you have. As you may be aware, AVCHD is the most demanding of all video formats on computer resources, and you need a pretty powerful computer just be able to play it smoothly.
Third, I guess you have already found that there is no way of getting Project Properties to automatically match those of your captured AVCHD files. Using "File > Preferences > Show message when inserting first clip in timeline" does not appear to work with AVCHD; nor can you manually set the project properties to match AVCHD; nor is there any obvious way to use Make Movie Template Manager to make an AVCHD template which uses Dolby 5.1 as the default AVCHD template uses dual channel stereo at best. (But see below.)
Well personally, I ignore the project properties side of things completely as it doesn't affect the properties of your AVCHD clips in the timeline while you are editing. It's what happens after that counts.
Next, I personally tend to edit, then simply jump to the burning module so that the project file is inserted in the burning module and any conversion that needs to take place occurs as part of the burning process. But this pre-supposes you have a powerful computer, and also that you have manually updated to the latest version of DirectX from the Microsoft website (current update is August 2008). I have never had any problems that way, though you will see from my System button that I have a Core 2 Quad. I also can't talk about whether using a DVD +R might have any effect as I always use -R blanks.
Now, if you want to go the more traditional way of editing then producing a new version of your AVCHD video, including its 5.1 audio, you need to make your own template. The only way I know how to do this is to click on Make Move Template Manager in the Tools tab. Select Add in the dialogue box which appears. Another box will appear. In the File Path window, click on the button to the right (with the 3 dots ...) and browse to where one of your captured AVCHD files is located and click on it. That file name will then appear in the window. In the window below that, give your new template a name e.g. AVCHD 5.1 or anything that will make it clear to you what it is. Then click OK, and then Close.
*****IMPORTANT: do NOT attempt to edit this new template in any way at any time. If you do, it will lose its properties, and you will have to start all over again. But once created, you can now use it after you finish editing, by selecting Share > Create Video File > AVCHD 5:1.
Note also that after you produce your new file, you go to File > New Project. Don't worry about giving your new project a name. The objective is just to clear the timeline of your current project.
Once that is done, you select Share > Create Disc > AVCHD. The burning module will open. Use the Add Media button at the top to insert your new file in the burning timeline. Then go to the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen. There is a little box beside the words 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files'. Make sure that box is ticked (it usually is by default). That way, your already compliant AVCHD file will not be re-encoded in any way. Then build your menu and burn.
I would also avoid using SmartRender in the conversion process after you finish editing. I and at least one other user (etech) have noticed anomalies creeping in when this is attempted with AVCHD. And no real need to worry about quality loss. Some will occur, but it will be microscopic, first because we are talking about the highest quality AVCHD video, and second, because only one conversion is not going to produce any degradation which is even remotely detectable by the human eye, especially since you are maintaining exactly the same high quality settings as the original.
Let us know how you get on. The results are worth it -- I play my own hybrid discs on my Sony PlayStation 3 which is a Blu-Ray player which can definitely play hybrid discs.
The other good thing about VS11.5+ in this regard is that you can also build menus for hybrid discs. Few of the other editing packages out there can do this as yet.Ken Berry
Ken, thanks for the reply. I added my system specs to my profile. It should be enough for AVCHD. Intel Quad Core Q9550 2.83GHz (not over-clocked) with 4 GB RAM running under Vista Ultimate 64 bit with SP1. The video card is low-end but from what I understand it plays little part in editing or encoding. This is new system I built specifically for editing. The only application software I have installed is VS and the software that came with my Sony SR11 camcorder, Picture Motion Browser. The PC is not internet-connected so I have no anti-virus, anti-spyware etc.
I did apply the August 2008 directx patch. I have the Amazon version of VS 11.5+ so I applied the hotfix, the directx patch, installed VS, then applied the update pack and the power pack. My version number is now at 11.5.0157.2 Plus.
When you mention hybrid discs vs. archive discs, I am not sure what you mean. I am burning AVCHD to DVD+R for playing in my Blu-ray player.
So far, everytime I go directly to Create Disc after editing, the audio on the disc has brief drop outs in the first 30 seconds then disappears completely at 30 seconds into a 15 minute video. This video has 45 clips plus 1 second fade-to-black transitions between each clip, a title, and ending credits. No other edits.
The audio in the clips is Dolby Digital 5.1 48,000 Hz, 448 bps that is native to the camcorder. When I play the video in the time line, the audio is there. During the Create Disc step, when I preview the audio (using the big remote control on the left side of the screen), the audio is there. But the burned discs have the audio problems described above. This has happened everytime I have done a Create Disc after editing. It does not happen if I generate a video file after editing, and then burn that file with Create Disc.
Generating the interim video file is a good work-around for now but takes extra time so I would rather avoid it.
The Blu-ray player is a Panasonic BD30, which can play AVCHD discs on standard recordable DVD's. I am using Verbatim DVD+R's. I have burned discs successfully without an interim file with Picture Motion Browser and with the trial version of Cyberlink's PowerDirector 7, so I don't think the problem is with my burner or the discs. (After trying PowerDirector 7, I formated the hard drive and re-installed Vista, Picture Motion Browser, and VS with the patches to make sure the Cyberlink product was not interfering with VS.)
With VS I initally burned the discs at 12x (they are rated for 16x), but after finding the audio problems, I slowed the burns to 4x, but it didn't help. I'll buy some -R discs just in case VS likes them better (although it burns to +R without problems when I use the interim video file approach).
I did apply the August 2008 directx patch. I have the Amazon version of VS 11.5+ so I applied the hotfix, the directx patch, installed VS, then applied the update pack and the power pack. My version number is now at 11.5.0157.2 Plus.
When you mention hybrid discs vs. archive discs, I am not sure what you mean. I am burning AVCHD to DVD+R for playing in my Blu-ray player.
So far, everytime I go directly to Create Disc after editing, the audio on the disc has brief drop outs in the first 30 seconds then disappears completely at 30 seconds into a 15 minute video. This video has 45 clips plus 1 second fade-to-black transitions between each clip, a title, and ending credits. No other edits.
The audio in the clips is Dolby Digital 5.1 48,000 Hz, 448 bps that is native to the camcorder. When I play the video in the time line, the audio is there. During the Create Disc step, when I preview the audio (using the big remote control on the left side of the screen), the audio is there. But the burned discs have the audio problems described above. This has happened everytime I have done a Create Disc after editing. It does not happen if I generate a video file after editing, and then burn that file with Create Disc.
Generating the interim video file is a good work-around for now but takes extra time so I would rather avoid it.
The Blu-ray player is a Panasonic BD30, which can play AVCHD discs on standard recordable DVD's. I am using Verbatim DVD+R's. I have burned discs successfully without an interim file with Picture Motion Browser and with the trial version of Cyberlink's PowerDirector 7, so I don't think the problem is with my burner or the discs. (After trying PowerDirector 7, I formated the hard drive and re-installed Vista, Picture Motion Browser, and VS with the patches to make sure the Cyberlink product was not interfering with VS.)
With VS I initally burned the discs at 12x (they are rated for 16x), but after finding the audio problems, I slowed the burns to 4x, but it didn't help. I'll buy some -R discs just in case VS likes them better (although it burns to +R without problems when I use the interim video file approach).
Update:
I tried burning the same project to a DVD-R disc and got the split-second audio drop-outs in the same spots as before with the DVD+R ,and the audio disappeared at 30 seconds like it did on the DVD+R.
I created a new project using a different set of clips from the same camcorder, and went directly from edit to Create Disc. The disc has the split second audio drop-outs, but the audio didn't disappear completely like it did with the other set of clips.
I wonder if Sony has implemented DD 5.1 audio in the SR11 camcorder in a slightly non-standard way and VS can't handle it in it's disc burning module. However, VS can handle it when creating a file then burning the file to disc, so that's probably not the problem.
I tried burning the same project to a DVD-R disc and got the split-second audio drop-outs in the same spots as before with the DVD+R ,and the audio disappeared at 30 seconds like it did on the DVD+R.
I created a new project using a different set of clips from the same camcorder, and went directly from edit to Create Disc. The disc has the split second audio drop-outs, but the audio didn't disappear completely like it did with the other set of clips.
I wonder if Sony has implemented DD 5.1 audio in the SR11 camcorder in a slightly non-standard way and VS can't handle it in it's disc burning module. However, VS can handle it when creating a file then burning the file to disc, so that's probably not the problem.
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Ken Berry
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I am sorry, but confess that I am totally mystified! 
The only thing I can think of is along the same lines as your speculation about some difference between the codec used by the Sony and that used by VS. With Create Video File used after editing, the VS 5.1 codec would of course be used (particularly if you don't use SmartRender). But by going straight to the burning module, even though it is a project file, if you have the Do Not Convert box ticked, then it is possible that the audio at least is left as is i.e. using the Sony codec for those parts of the project which are untouched original video. But I confess that sounds pretty thin even to me!
How long does the latter method take to produce a DVD? I would have thought it would have been about the same overall as the time taken by the conversion in the Edit stage, then the multiplexing and actual burn in the burn module. This is because if you are using the edited *project* file in the burning module, then conversion still has to occur come what may. So on that basis I would not think you would be losing all that much time by doing it the 'long' way i.e. converting first.
As a footnote, regarding your question about my reference to an archive disc: my PlayStation 3 will play high definition video which is simply burned on a DVD in the same way you would store any other data file on a CD or DVD. It has to be in a folder on the disc labelled (in upper case) VIDEO. But once the PS3 sees that folder, it will play whatever is in it. In other words, you don't have to go through the process of actually burning an AVCHD hybrid disc with the PS3.
The only thing I can think of is along the same lines as your speculation about some difference between the codec used by the Sony and that used by VS. With Create Video File used after editing, the VS 5.1 codec would of course be used (particularly if you don't use SmartRender). But by going straight to the burning module, even though it is a project file, if you have the Do Not Convert box ticked, then it is possible that the audio at least is left as is i.e. using the Sony codec for those parts of the project which are untouched original video. But I confess that sounds pretty thin even to me! How long does the latter method take to produce a DVD? I would have thought it would have been about the same overall as the time taken by the conversion in the Edit stage, then the multiplexing and actual burn in the burn module. This is because if you are using the edited *project* file in the burning module, then conversion still has to occur come what may. So on that basis I would not think you would be losing all that much time by doing it the 'long' way i.e. converting first.
As a footnote, regarding your question about my reference to an archive disc: my PlayStation 3 will play high definition video which is simply burned on a DVD in the same way you would store any other data file on a CD or DVD. It has to be in a folder on the disc labelled (in upper case) VIDEO. But once the PS3 sees that folder, it will play whatever is in it. In other words, you don't have to go through the process of actually burning an AVCHD hybrid disc with the PS3.
Ken Berry
Ken, thanks for all your effort. I appreciate it.
Since my last note, I tried yet another set of clips from the same camcorder. 16 minutes of video with the only editing being the adding of transitions between clips. Went from editing to Create Disc with no interim file and the audio was perfect! Now I am even more puzzled.
I'll keep working at it to try to isolate the problem to a combination of circumstances, and then may contact Ulead's tech support.
I leave for vacation tomorrow morning so will not be able to read the forum for several days. When I return I will check for any further suggestions that anyone may have.
Since my last note, I tried yet another set of clips from the same camcorder. 16 minutes of video with the only editing being the adding of transitions between clips. Went from editing to Create Disc with no interim file and the audio was perfect! Now I am even more puzzled.
I'll keep working at it to try to isolate the problem to a combination of circumstances, and then may contact Ulead's tech support.
I leave for vacation tomorrow morning so will not be able to read the forum for several days. When I return I will check for any further suggestions that anyone may have.
Hi Ken,
I'm rather new to this forum as well to the VideoStudio software . I bought a HD Panasonic camera and detected a week ago that you need indeed a very powerful PC
As I'm new in this area I want to avoid to buy a new PC immediately, so as a first practice in this area and building some expierence, I'm thinking of transforming my HD scenes into a lower definition video.
Is there an easy way in transforming AVCHD format into another standard DVD format?
So that I able to edit those scenes and created a standard DVD afterthat.
When I'm a little bit used to this all after some expierence I hope to be able to buy the right powerfull PC.
Thanks for all the help... I will need this to understand this new media
cheers
Johann
I'm rather new to this forum as well to the VideoStudio software . I bought a HD Panasonic camera and detected a week ago that you need indeed a very powerful PC
As I'm new in this area I want to avoid to buy a new PC immediately, so as a first practice in this area and building some expierence, I'm thinking of transforming my HD scenes into a lower definition video.
Is there an easy way in transforming AVCHD format into another standard DVD format?
So that I able to edit those scenes and created a standard DVD afterthat.
When I'm a little bit used to this all after some expierence I hope to be able to buy the right powerfull PC.
Thanks for all the help... I will need this to understand this new media
cheers
Johann
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Ken Berry
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What is the model of your Panasonic?
The only way, using Video Studio, to get the AVCHD into some other format is to capture it, then place the video in the timeline. You could try editing it but if your computer is not powerful enough, that would be a waste of time. So I would just go straight to Share > Create Video File > DVD and that will down-convert the AVCHD mpeg-4 to standard definition mpeg-2 which is compatible with the international DVD standard. Then you can edit that.
The only way, using Video Studio, to get the AVCHD into some other format is to capture it, then place the video in the timeline. You could try editing it but if your computer is not powerful enough, that would be a waste of time. So I would just go straight to Share > Create Video File > DVD and that will down-convert the AVCHD mpeg-4 to standard definition mpeg-2 which is compatible with the international DVD standard. Then you can edit that.
Ken Berry
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Ken Berry
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I am afraid you also need to know that the HS9 appears to have some conflict with VS11.5+ and, I believe, other editing programs. It seems as though Panasonic has used one of its own AVCHD codecs which is not completely compatible with other programs' codecs. Apparently, you can use the software which comes with the camera. The problem with that is, that it is rather too simple so that you can't get clever looking DVDs etc...
Ken Berry
Really?
What supprises me it that VS support never mentioned that! I opened a track last week because I had some problem with a hpxxx.dll and they never said that their software isn't able to support Panasonic.
For the moment I haven't got any problem importing the clips, I hope I can still go for that std DVD format.
thx for the info!
Johann
What supprises me it that VS support never mentioned that! I opened a track last week because I had some problem with a hpxxx.dll and they never said that their software isn't able to support Panasonic.
For the moment I haven't got any problem importing the clips, I hope I can still go for that std DVD format.
thx for the info!
Johann
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Ken Berry
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The problem with the HS9 only becomes apparent when you try to edit the video in its original format and then try to play it back in Project mode. A number of users have met the same problem, and there are a couple of threads on it if you do a search.
Since you only want to down-convert, that particular problem should not arise. But if at some later stage you do get into high definition editing, you need to be aware that it is a potential problem. Hopefully, however, the video editing programs available at that time, including Video Studio, will have been adjusted to work with the Panny...
Since you only want to down-convert, that particular problem should not arise. But if at some later stage you do get into high definition editing, you need to be aware that it is a potential problem. Hopefully, however, the video editing programs available at that time, including Video Studio, will have been adjusted to work with the Panny...
Ken Berry
Hi Ken,
Yes that's what I experienced as well during the projection mode, even with 3 clips (together 30 secs) I ran into problems all the time. I couldn't understand that I already ran into trouble with almost nothing in a project.
So reading this, I understand it now, even if I buy a Core 2 Quad 3Ghz and 4GB RAM I will have this problem due to the Panasonic HD format.
I still wonder why the support guys of VS don't want to tell me this.
and yes I hope they will fix this the coming months.
As stated before I will gain first some expierence in down grading my clips. No problem...
I'm happy I started this discussion on this forum. I learned already quit some things.
thx Ken
best regards,
Johann
Yes that's what I experienced as well during the projection mode, even with 3 clips (together 30 secs) I ran into problems all the time. I couldn't understand that I already ran into trouble with almost nothing in a project.
So reading this, I understand it now, even if I buy a Core 2 Quad 3Ghz and 4GB RAM I will have this problem due to the Panasonic HD format.
I still wonder why the support guys of VS don't want to tell me this.
and yes I hope they will fix this the coming months.
As stated before I will gain first some expierence in down grading my clips. No problem...
I'm happy I started this discussion on this forum. I learned already quit some things.
thx Ken
best regards,
Johann
workflow for avchd to bluray disc
Hi Ken,
I am new to this forum , i have read previous posts on avchd editing.
my camcorder is panasonic hdcsd1.
My computer seems to handle avchd ok. I can edit avchd to dvd-r and keep 5.1 dd audio ok.
I am having problems avchd to bluray disc.
Every time i attempt to creat a bluray disc the end result is a poor picture.
I check the box do not convert compiant mpeg files, so i do not re-encode my avchd. I would like to keep original settings.
Do i have to convert my avchd video for bluray disc, if so could you please advise.
I am new to this forum , i have read previous posts on avchd editing.
my camcorder is panasonic hdcsd1.
My computer seems to handle avchd ok. I can edit avchd to dvd-r and keep 5.1 dd audio ok.
I am having problems avchd to bluray disc.
Every time i attempt to creat a bluray disc the end result is a poor picture.
I check the box do not convert compiant mpeg files, so i do not re-encode my avchd. I would like to keep original settings.
Do i have to convert my avchd video for bluray disc, if so could you please advise.
Hi Ken,
I finally succeeded in burning a STD quality DVD out of the HD clips. But I had to use the software HD-writer provided by panasonic. With VS 11.5+ I had all the time abends.
I have now imported the DVD into VS11.5+ and so far I haven't got any problem yet. But I suppose this will be OK.
so far the quality is rather OK. I can finnally starting editing my film... great!!
Thx for the help and cheers,
Johann
I finally succeeded in burning a STD quality DVD out of the HD clips. But I had to use the software HD-writer provided by panasonic. With VS 11.5+ I had all the time abends.
I have now imported the DVD into VS11.5+ and so far I haven't got any problem yet. But I suppose this will be OK.
so far the quality is rather OK. I can finnally starting editing my film... great!!
Thx for the help and cheers,
Johann