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I've been experimenting with burning DVDs and noticed an extremely annoying frame rate issue. The majority of my DVDs turn out fine, but in a few the playback has a strange periodic loss of a frame or two every second or so throughout the video which makes the video look "jerky".

First I thought it was a dvd burner issue: tried a second burner, same problem.

Then I thought it might be a HDD/SD card issue: copied the files to a different drive, same problem.

Then I tried rendering a small 20 sec sample of the video file (Share>Create Video File> NTSC DVD 4:3).......and the jerky playback was still present.

Whats so irritating is the preview playback is fine.......but when I render the video or create a DVD, the playback has the choppy frame loss. The sound is perfect, but I just cannot tolerate losing frames every second of the entire video. The video also plays fine in WMP 11 without error. The files I'm using are mpeg-2..........but when I render them as NTSC DVD files, I get the choppy playback.

Even stranger, other files of the same size and type render fine and produce normal DVDs and I cannot understand the difference which causes the errors.

Any suggestions/tips? I'm running out of ideas and I can't find the cause when some videos work and others have the issue for no apparent reason.

Hi

When you convert, Share Create Video File, disable Smart Render from the Options button on the save window.

If Trevor's suggestion does not work, we will need to know the properties of the source video i.e. is it PAL or NTSC, or anything else about it, including the Field Order. If you change the original field order, you will get choppy playback. If you change the format from PAL to NTSC or vice versa you will get choppy playback. And there are other things that can cause it. So it might be as simple as Trevor's suggestion. Or it could be far more complicated...

Unfortunately, Trevor's tip didn't correct the problem. On version 11.5+, under Options, I disabled "Perform SmartRender" but the output sample still had the periodic jerkiness.

Here are the properties for the source file, which is in NTSC format:

Video type: mpeg-2 video, upper field first
total frames: 107,946 frames
Attributes: 24 bits, 544 X 480, 4:3
frame rate: 29.970 frames/sec
data rate: variable bit rate(Max. 2900 kbps)

Audio: Dolby Digital Audio
Total samples: 172,886,486 samples
attributes: 48000 Hz
Layer: None
Bit rate: 192 kbps

I tested output files using "NTSC DVD 4:3" and for fun, "AVCHD H.264 1440x1080" both had the exact same choppy playback after rendering.

I don't know what "field order" means, but under preferences, my default is "frame-based" and the source video properties says NTSC drop frame 29.970.

I don't know if this will help, but hopefully someone can give me some guidance/tips to correct this annoying problem. Thanks for your help so far Ken and Trevor.

Thanks for those extra details. But there is one little mystery: where did the video come from? I ask because it has a most unusual frame size (544 x 480). Standard NTSC format is 720 x 480, and I am assuming this is what you output the DVD 4:3 video to. If so, then the program would have had to invent 176 horizontal pixels out of thin air. This would degrade the quality but not, as far as I can think, give you choppy playback.

What I still think the main problem is, is the field order. Your video started life using Upper Field First. And the basic rule of video editing is that you must use the same field order throughout a project, up to and including the final DVD. Essentially, interlaced video transmits an image by lines, as you would know from your TV. But to speed up the transmission it is transmitted in alternate lines, with one frame or field transmitting lines 1, 3, 5 etc and the next field transmitting lines 2, 4, 6 etc. This happens very quickly so that the eye perceives a single image being transmitted. Some video is filmed using the 1, 3, 5 lines first, and this is called Upper or Top Field First. Other video starts off with 2, 4, 6 etc, and is called Lower or Bottom Field First.

The end result to the eye is the same, but it is important that video that started life as Upper (or Lower) field first, always be processed using that same field order. Otherwise the eye perceives that there is something wrong as it is seeing the 'wrong' field first and motion will thus appear slightly jerky, particularly in fast motion or panning shots. Vertical straight lines will also appear jagged.

Frame Based is not interlaced. An image is transmitted as one solid set of lines: 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. You can use this with a slideshow of still images, for instance. High quality HDTVs which are rated at 1920 x 1080p (rather than i) are called progressive scan, and can play solid high definition video using no fields. But when you burn a DVD, it will usually, with motion video, be interlaced. You have burned your DVD using Frame Based but using video that started out as Upper Field First. So it is not playing back properly as the eye detects something is wrong. The resulting motion is jerky. Note that when you play a frame based video on a computer monitor, it will appear OK. But not on most TVs...

So if you are going to make a lot of DVDs from this same video source, I would first go into File > Preferences in Video Studio, and make sure the default Field Order is changed from Frame Based to Upper Field First.

Next, when you have finished editing your video, I would choose Share > Create Video File > DVD. In the dialogue box which shows, look at the properties down in the window at the bottom of the box and make sure it uses Upper Field First. If not, then cancel out and choose Share > Create Video File > Custom. Make sure the format is mpeg, then choose Options. On the new dialogue box, you have three tabs where you can change all the properties, but the one you want is to make sure the Field Order is Upper Field First. Click OK, give your new file a name, and then close the dialogue box and the project will be rendered -- properly this time -- as a fully DVD compliant mpeg-2.

When rendering is complete, go to File > New Project. Don't worry about a name -- the objective is merely to clear the timeline. Then select Share > Create Disc > DVD. The burning module will open. You use the Insert Media button to insert your new mpeg-2. Click on the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen, and make sure 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked. Build your menus and burn. Hopefully this time it will play correctly.

By the way, no one I know burns AVCHD 'just for fun'!!! It is one of the most difficult and demanding formats that exist on the place of an already complicated planet. So unless you have a specific need for such video, and the equipment that can play it properly, avoid it. It requires a very powerful computer, at a minimum a Core 2 Duo, even to be able to play AVCHD smoothly, so that could have been your problem with that format right there. And if you burned it to a DVD, it would either have been converted back to mpeg-2 using the wrong field order, or would have burned as a hybrid AVCHD disc which can only be played in a Blu-Ray player rated to play such hybrid discs.

The video was originally a .tivo file which I converted to an mpeg-2 file and am editing to DVD.

I tried setting Preferences to "Upper-field first". NTSC DVD 4:3 only gave the default option of "lower-field first", so I did a small rendering test with custom, "upper-field first", mpeg-2, SmartRender enabled.........same jerky video. I also tried these same settings with SmartRender disabled.......same jerky result.

I have absolutely no idea why this is happening.........the lost frames are in the exact same place every time and it is definitely periodic and is present throughout the entire video.

To add to the confusion.......I was so annoyed that I tried making a DVD from the same "jerky" files in Windows Movie Maker and DVD Maker and they worked with no jerky motion.

Any other tips? I'm hoping this can be resolved as it's much easier to edit and customize DVDs in VS and I hope I didn't waste money on VS which I otherwise thought was a good product.

tvid101 wrote: The majority of my DVDs turn out fine, but in a few the playback has a strange periodic loss of a frame or two every second or so throughout the video which makes the video look "jerky".

Are all your source files Tivo?

trevor andrew wrote: Are all your source files Tivo?

I've burned some avi files to DVD which turned out fine but yes, 95% of the files are converted tivo files. All of them have burned fine to DVD except for three, all of which exhibit the exact same choppiness.

Like I said before, the same files burned fine in WMM which is quite strange and irritating. Hopefully I can find a solution.

tvid101 wrote:Whats so irritating is the preview playback is fine.......but when I render the video or create a DVD, the playback has the choppy frame loss. The sound is perfect, but I just cannot tolerate losing frames every second of the entire video. The video also plays fine in WMP 11 without error. The files I'm using are mpeg-2.

I have seen the exact same problem here, only the frame loss only happens 5-10 times per minute. My original material was also MPEG-2 (from an old Sony MicroMV format camera), but in standard PAL. Over time I've tried many things to resolve this, but I never found any solution.
I've seen this with VideoStudio 9 as well as 11+.

Once I changed to a DV camera (instead of MicroMV), I've had no more problems. It would seem that using MPEG-2 source material is the common factor here.

So if you are going to make a lot of DVDs from this same video source, I would first go into File > Preferences in Video Studio, and make sure the default Field Order is changed from Frame Based to Upper Field First.

Just to confirm, Can this be done after you have already transfered the video from the camera to the computer or this has to be done before you do the transfer

Next, when you have finished editing your video, I would choose Share > Create Video File > DVD. In the dialogue box which shows, look at the properties down in the window at the bottom of the box and make sure it uses Upper Field First. If not, then cancel out and choose Share > Create Video File > Custom. Make sure the format is mpeg, then choose Options. On the new dialogue box, you have three tabs where you can change all the properties, but the one you want is to make sure the Field Order is Upper Field First. Click OK, give your new file a name, and then close the dialogue box and the project will be rendered -- properly this time -- as a fully DVD compliant mpeg-2.

Is this the same for PAL DVD?


When you render your video is it better to use a variable or constant bitrate?

Can this be done after you have already transfered the video from the camera to the computer or this has to be done before you do the transfer

In a sense it does not matter when it is done, as long as it is done. It is a permanent default change (until such time as you might wish to changed it again). And it does not affect the properties of the captured/imported video during the capture process. It will only start having an effect, as you have found, when you edit and encode video which has started out with one field order, but you then use the default field order which is different. So if you are actually editing a project in the timeline, and want to be sure you have the correct field order, you need to manually check, after you change the Preferences, that the properties for the encode to video file and burn to disc are using the correct field order. But after that, for any future project, the new default should apply.

Is this the same for PAL DVD?

As you can see, I live in Canberra, so yes, it certainly applies to PAL DVD just as it does to NTSC DVD.

When you render your video is it better to use a variable or constant bitrate?

Ah!!! How long is a piece of string??? There are a number of schools of thought on this, and being a lawyer, I tend to sit on the fence. Others will give different answers according to their personal preference. Some will always use constant; some will always use variable. My own practice is to use whichever seems most appropriate for a specific project.

Essentially, a variable bit rate can allow for a more efficient use of space. A video with fast action shots mixed with plenty of slow or tranquil bits, will probably best be encoded using a variable bitrate. The high action stuff requires a lot more data and a higher bitrate for those fast sections. But when there is not much action, the computer can just repeat the same code for the opening frames of a scene until there is a change. And it uses a slower bitrate for this. Overall, your video using a variable bitrate will be smaller.

A constant bitrate will always give you a known quality level: so a high constant bitrate will give you high quality output throughout the video. A medium one will give medium quality throughout, and so on. This will result in a larger file than a VBR one, but this will not matter if your project is not particularly long. Thus, a project which is less than an hour long could be encoded using a CBR of 8000 and you would get both a high quality product and one which fits on a single layer DVD. You would fit more on if you used a VBR max 8000.

Anyway, if I am doing a project with a lot of action, and not many still parts, or else a short project, I would be inclined to use CBR. But if it is a mixed action/tranquil project, or one nearing the limit in length, I would be more inclined to use VBR.

Thanks for that advice Ken.

I changed Field Order to Upper Field First and made sure that when i burnt the dvd it was also set at Upper field first. Unfortunately the finished dvd when played on a dvd player still has the little jerky / glitchy bits. In saying that, it has definately improved from what it was. Changing the burn speed to 2x made a big improvement aswell. There is alot of movement in the video, it's of a dance concert.

Here are the file details

File format: Pal DVD
File size: 3723528 KB
Duration: 6578.000 seconds (which is about 1hour 50sec)

Video type: MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First
Total Frames: 164,450 frames
Attributes: 24bits, 720 x 576 4:3
Frame rate: 25.000 frames/sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (max 5350 kbps)

Audio type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 files
Total Samples: 315,744,000 samples
Attributes: 48000Hz, 16Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2
Bit rate: 224kbps

Is there anything else I could do to get rid of the glitches. I have tried both +R and -R DVD's. I have been using a cheaper of dvd like Dick Smith, would that make a difference if I used a more expensive brand.

Thanks

I am having the same problem with dropped frames during rendering to mpg2 video file. I discovered that if I set the "data rate" to "constant bit rate" most of the jerky playback was eliminated. But there was still some noticeable dropped frames. I have tried all the suggestions mentioned under this topic but I am still experimenting with different settings to correct this problem.

I think I may have discovered a possible solution to my "lost frame" problem. I tried using 3 different mpg2 players: realplayer, MS Media Player, and Nero Showtime. Only Nero Showtime was able to play the mpg2 file correctly.