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Video Studio 11.5Plus Create Disk Crashes

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:42 pm
by Smokey
I have created an MPEG 2 video file from a project using a variety of files including AVCHD from a Sony HDR SR8 and old .avi files (which have worked before in older projects). I have gone to Create Disk/DVD/4:3, imported the rendered file and tried to create a disk (with and without a menu) and have watched it get to 90%completion before burning and then see it freeze. It always freezes in the same place. Not only that, it freezes my computer and requires a re-start. I always select 2pass, do not re-render MPEG compliant files...
This is the first project I have used with AVCHD. There was a learning curve using the new AVCHD files, but smart-proxy really helped in the editting stage to prevent problems. When it rendered to a file I was overjoyed. The rendered file however will NOT play with Media Player, Real Player, but will play with Cyber Link Hi Def Suite (Basic OEM version...) which I found unusual if this helps as it is a rendered MPEG 2 format...
Any suggestions as to why it would just freeze 90%into the file prep before attempting burn??
Corel has been no help in this.
I have had major problems up to this point and even reinstalled the software prior to rendering which helped in some of the audio freeze-ups I was getting with microphone input of voice. I thought I had it beat when it rendered to file, but I can't get it to disk :(

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:59 pm
by sjj1805
Firstly if you select do not convert files and then 2nd pass you have a contradiction. 2 pass means that you are converting and doing so in 2 passes rather than one!!

Hi-Def Videos will only play back with Hi-Def software which is why Media Player, Real Player, are not playing them but Cyber Link Hi Def Suite will.

I strongly suspect that your rendered video has some corruption causing it to fall over at the same point every time. You might need to re-render the video again. You can also try Creating a Video Editing Profile. which will help avoid any software conflicts.

Another thing to try is to burn to a hard drive folder rather than to a disc.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:04 pm
by Ken Berry
Smokey -- can you give us all the properties of both your new mpeg-2 and your 'old' avi files, please. I am wanting to find out if you created a standard-definition mpeg-2 or a high definition one. If you used SmartProxy with the AVCHD, that would have created standard definition files which you edit, but then at the end of the process, it applies the edits to the AVCHD in the original format so you end up with edited high definition files.

As for the .avi files, there are over 800 video types which use that extension, so I want to find out exactly what kind you are talking about.

I see that you are burning a standard definition DVD using 4:3. Your AVCHD files and presumably your new mpeg-2 will be 16:9. So on top of everything else, you are probably doing a further conversion of at least some of the video from 16:9 to 4:3 which is occurring in the burning process.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:14 am
by Smokey
Ken:

New mpegs are m2ts files and the old .avi files are microsoft video 320.240 15fps cinepak codec files
The old files have worked before in previous projects.
My assumption in using the DVD 4:3 format is to provide N.Amer. Standard for the end-user on a DVD TV player. Would you recommend some other option considering the end-user...?
I have tried the previous post recommendation in re-rendering, and trying to make a disk image file as well as trying to create disk after re-rendering without success (still stalls my computer so I have to reboot to get out of the program...). The elapsed time sometimes continues to run and other times it freezes as well. Running of the elapsed time does not indicate any processing as I am unable to cancel or use any other program on the computer until I reboot...
If there is a corrupted file, how can I detect this? If it is a corrupted file, why will it play from the file created on the hard disk without any glitch?
Hope you have some kind of solution. I would hate to have to start this project from scratch!
I will mention that I did have major freeze-ups and computer jams when trying to apply MP3 files via microphone input (I converted the wma files to MP3 when I had problems with direct recording so I used a wma/MP3 converter to reduce the file size). Also, playback of this file would only occur in soundtrack mode in the Edit process and would not be heard during edit playback if I was in frame or timeline/track mode... I had not had this problem with mic input before, but I have really not done that much mic input previously, and the previous successes may be a fluke. I assumed my computer upgrade would eliminate my problems (see profile), but it seems to be worse than ever with the AVCHD files.
Thank you both for such rapid responses. I must say I am impressed by your diligence in updating the forum, and your knowledge base with Vid Studio.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:09 am
by Ken Berry
You say you have created an mpeg-2 of your project combining the AVCHD and Cinepak .avi's... With Video Studio open, can you right click on that mpeg-2 file either in the timeline or in the library window, and copy ALL its properties here please.

I ask because in your latest post, you say the 'new mpegs are m2ts files'. The problem with that is that .m2ts files are NOT mpeg-2s but high definition mpeg-4 files converted using the difficult AVC/H.264 codec. But if in fact you have converted your project to a new .m2ts file, and managed to incorporate what are fairly low quality and strange format size Cinepak files, that is probably the wrong workflow if you are intending to burn a standard definition DVD, which is what I understand you are trying to do.

A brief word about the Cinepak files: they are not consistent or compliant with the international DVD standard for several reasons. First, they are not mpeg-2. Second, they are not the right frame size for a DVD which would need to be either (full frame) 720 x 480 for NTSC or 360 x 240 for half frame size. And the speed is wrong -- about half the required speed for NTSC DVD which is 29.97 fps, whereas your Cinepak files are only 15 fps. So when they are converted, as they have to be, Video Studio in effect has to invent 40 horizontal pixels out of thin air, and also invent roughly 15 new frames per second to get them up to DVD standard speed. I know you said you have used them before, but I don't believe their quality after conversion would be particularly good. I might also note that I find it just a little strange that you should be blending extremely high quality AVCHD files with fairly low quality Cinepak ones... But each to his own, I guess!!

Now back to the main point, if you have a project made up of m2ts files and these Cinepak files in the timeline, and intend to burn a standard definition DVD, then you would first convert the project to a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 -- which is what you originally suggested you had done, but I now have my doubts. The command you would have to use would be Share > Create Video File > DVD. You haven't told us how long you project is, but if it is an hour or less, then that command will produce a high quality standard definition mpeg-2 which can be burned to DVD without further conversion.

However, if your project is longer than 1 hour, then you will need to use a different command: Share > Create Video File > Custom. A dialogue box will appear, and if you click on the Options button, you can change the properties of the mpeg-2 file you are producing. If your project is, say, around 90 minutes long, then you would need to go to the Compression tab on the new dialogue box which appears when you click Options, and change the bitrate to around 6000 kbps from the default 8000 kbps. And if it is around 2 hours, then the bitrate will have to be lowered still further to 4000 kbps. If you change the audio format on that same Compression page to, say, Dolby, then you will be able to squeeze another 10 minutes or so of video on the disc.

Now to the question of 4:3 as opposed to 16:9 (widescreen) which is on the General tab on that dialogue box. Your original m2ts files from the camera are most definitely 16:9, which is a good, high quality thing. There is simply little point in changing this to 4:3 if, as I suspect, 90% or more of the project is made up of the m2ts files. At best, changing the aspect ratio to 4:3 will put big wide black bars above and below the video, cutting down the size of the video image on screen. And if you and your friends have widescreen TVs, then you are wasting space. If you leave it in its native 16:9 format, then your eventual DVD will fill a widescreen TV screen. At worst, the widescreen original video could be squeezed horizontally, so that everyone and everything in it looks too tall and thin!

The Cinepak videos are likely to suffer in all this since they will almost undoubtedly be in 4:3 format. But you will have guessed by now that I don't think all that highly of them (admittedly sight unseen) and I certainly would not be reducing the quality of my final DVD to the lowest common denominator which they represent in your project. I would be trying to maintain the highest quality, come what may, given that you are dealing mostly with highest quality AVCHD! :roll:

Anyway, you adjust the bitrate as suggested above and set the aspect ratio to 16:9. You give your file a name, and let it do its thing. Even though your computer is up to the job, converting AVCHD/m2ts files is incredibly demanding of computer resources, and takes some considerable time -- I would think about four times the length of your project to convert.

After you produce your new mpeg-2, you go to File > New Project. Don't worry about giving your new project a name. The objective is just to clear the timeline of your current project.

Once that is done, you select Share > Create Disc > DVD. The burning module will open. Use the Add Media button at the top to insert your new mpeg-2 in the burning timeline. Then go to the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen. There is a little box beside the words 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files'. Make sure that box is ticked (it usually is by default). That way, your already compliant mpeg file will not be re-encoded. Then build your menus and burn.

And finally, a footnote about your audio problem. MP3 is not a particularly good format for working with Video Studio. VS has problems with certain mp3 codecs, the LameMP3 one in particular. So it is much better to use standard .wav format for any of your audio. It is also better to use a third party audio editor to trim, edit and otherwise play around with your audio before inserting it in VS. Yes, .wav files are large, but if you are using the Dolby codec as I suggest above, the large original .wav files will be compressed into smaller Dolby files when you are producing your DVD compatible mpeg-2.

Let us know how you get on! :lol:

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:53 am
by Smokey
Thanks for the response, Ken.
Unfortunately, nothing is working.
Here are the files used in the original edt package
m2ts H.264 codec Upper field first
jpg images (inserted into timeline).
microsoft avi Cinepak Codec 24bit 320X240 15fps LPCM Audio 16 bit
I know you are wondering about my sanity using the old avi file, but I use them in an artistic way with overlays (not main video) and give a 'fuzzy' interesting effect with animations etc such as fuzzy fireworks... It sometimes works to add interesting colour and flash... :)
The rendered files are
MPEG 2 video files 24bit 720X480 in about a 2.0Gig file size.
I have rendered in ......
16:9 Upper field first
16:9 Lower field first
4:3 Lower field first
4:3 Upper field first
16:9 without ANY avi files
16:9 without ANY mic input files
bit rates were at the default 8000kbps as overcompression was not needed due to all situations easily fitting onto a DVD

ALL FILES crash after menu formation (98% finished) and overall completion of 26-28% (depending on the type of menu I choose, as I have tried with and without menus, different menus etc..).
As I mentioned, not only does it freeze the program, I actually have to jump start the computer to unfreeze it every time. Most times my desktop recovery warning also fires up and requires me to restart my desktop.
The project is only 30 minutes long, but has a laboured editting profile in effects, transitions etc.
I have restarted, reloading the editing package from scratch today, including only the AVCHD files, some music and jpgs and it crashes in the same place in the same way with the same shocking effect on my whole system.
I find it odd that I can play the rendered file from my hard disk with a Hi Def Player, but when I try to author a disk from Vid Studio catastrophe hits. I have spent my weekend on this trying everything you mentioned, and if I am missing something please tell me before I end up using my monitor as a necklace :)
I have had significant instability problems on other projects, but have always eventually got it to burn. The previous instability was usually manipulating sound (in the audio timeline adjusting volume on the thread). I simply learned to save often.... Occasionally this would also lock up my system in the editing mode, but not always. I would most often get the annoying "Windows has encountered an error and will have to shut down the program" notice and the program would just disappear off the screen and require the project reload.
This problem is much bigger and is standing in the way of completion.

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:42 am
by Smokey
OK. I have some progress report.
I have contacted Corel (again), and they told me since it is rendering but not burning, and able to create a disk image etc, the problem has to be with a corrupted file/burner communication.
The solution given was to do a manual uninstall (I had previously only done a Windows uninstall), then reinstall all the program, updates, patches etc. and then look for a driver for my LG optical disk.
I completed the uninstall, the install, and could not find any newer driver.

I went to create disk and it burned the disk! BUT.....
only to 99% completion upon which it crashed my system (this is exactly what happened after my last uninstall/install on a small project, but I didn't think to try to do it again because I had my finished disk. The disk by the way in this instance and the last was complete, it was just the software that froze at 99% and also my computer which went Arctic)
Having a completed disk was nice (flawless by the way), but when I tried to create disk again from the same file... WHAM it froze at project completion 28% (the place where the menu ends and the project begins as the menu was 98% completed) just as it did the 10 times before with all of my reworking.
So, it looks like I got my project to disk, but I will have to uninstall/install every time I want a disk unless someone can give me a solution.
Goofy, huh?

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:21 am
by sjj1805

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:05 am
by Smokey
Follow-up with Corel support gives no 'final'solution to my problem.
Drivers are up-to-date, burn speeds not a factor, manual removal and reinstall as mentioned gave a 99% completion before freeze-up, then a quick reversal to the original problem.
Corel now feels that it is a software conflict with another burning program (mine is Nero) and the solution would be one of two options:
1). MANUALLY uninstall Nero (if such a protocol exists for certainty of completion; no direction given for this....)
2). Create a disk image with menus (which I can do successfully) then burn with Nero (plays fine and seems to have the same quality as the one disk I did get from the Ulead software prior to the problem re-instating itself).
The support said a Windows based uninstall of Nero would likely not be effective. Without any kind of certainty of hand-plucking files from both programs and doing a re-install of Ulead (AND doing without my burning software that I use for other applications) the better option is just to adjust my protocol to using Nero to burn the disk image file generated from the Create Disk in Vid Studio 11.5+.....

If anyone has a step-by-step protocol for removing all the Nero drivers AND has a testimonial of success in reinstating the disk authoring ability of Ulead Vid Studio 11.5+ let me know. Nero is fairly popular so I have to imagine I am not the only bird on the planet to have run into this conflict!
Otherwise I'll amend my protocol as above and fly with that.
What a nuisance.
Surely Corel must have enough support issues with this to ensure that there is not a further conflict with other (very) popular burning programs such as Nero, Roxio etc. You would think they would save everyone (including themselves) hours of time handling this problem with some research in drivers....
Oh well.

Thanks to Ken and S double J for all of your help and diligence.
Hope this saves someone else from going through all of this.

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:19 am
by sjj1805
Regarding conflicts with programs such as Nero and Roxio.
You do not have to remove Nero - I have Nero on my systems.
What you DO have to remove is the "Packet Writing Software" - this is CD/DVD burning software that enables you to use the disc in much the same way as Windows Explorer where you can drag and drop files onto the disc.

Please view Problems burning a DVD for a list of popular packet writing software.

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:40 am
by lancecarr
The specific Nero program being referred to here is InCD. It can be uninstalled separately from the Windows add/remove programs module. You do not have to totally remove Nero itself.

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:56 am
by Ken Berry
I too use Nero all the time with no conflicts with VS. Nero themselves realised that InCD causes problems for other software packages, not only VS, and it is no longer installed by default in Nero 7 and 8. The problem is that a lot of computers come preloaded with cut down, and somewhat older, versions of 'Nero Essentials' or something similar in the Roxio range. And those *do* seem to install InCD by default. But if InCD is not listed on Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs, it is not on your computer. I would also say that I don't think that is your problem since you could actually burn a disc, with the error message only appearing at the end of the burn. With InCD, you simply can't access the burner at all, period.

The other thing I would say does not answer your immediate problem of burning an actual disc. But I almost never use Video Studio to burn an actual disc, and you will probably find a few of us who don't. That's not because VS doesn't work for us either! :roll: It's because there are alternatives which are worth thinking about.

I almost invariably use Nero to burn the final disc of my projects. But that is because I actually "burn" notionally a DVD Folder on the final page of the VS burning module. A DVD Folder is the Video_TS folder you will find on all commercial video DVDs. It is the final DVD, and only lacks the DVD itself to make it so. The advantage is that you can play back such a folder on a software DVD player like WinDVD or PowerDVD and check that everything looks OK, menus and all. If it is, then you can burn the folder in Nero or Roxio or another program that will burn such folders to disc.

You could also burn a disc image .ISO file as Corel seems to have suggested, which does much the same thing. However, it is more difficult to watch an .ISO file on a software DVD player. You have to 'mount' it on a virtual drive using a separate piece of software such as Power ISO. But you can actually burn an ISO file using a separate element of Video Studio, which you can't do with a DVD Folder. And of course Nero and Roxio will also burn ISO files.

I guess what I am saying is not to become too fixated on this one problem. Though you might want to solve it (as I would too), you can now think of it as opening up wider possibilities for burning in other programs with the various positive aspects that can entail. :lol:

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:35 am
by Smokey
Thanks, Lance, Ken and S double J!
I am aware of the InCD conflict and do not have it on my system anyway. It is something else but no one knows what. I agree that taking out Nero is not probably good advice from support at Ulead. I was aware that others would likely use it to burn (as Ken B has offerred in his reply).
Although it is irritating, (and originally I thought I was sunk as I got stuck thinking of the problem rather than going around it) my discovery that I could generate not only a rendered result in MPEG 2, I could also create .iso files and disk folders and burn these without any appreciable loss in quality.
I like Nero, and this suits me. Either iso or disk folder options are suitable as my system burns a disk in the time I take to make a cup of tea with Nero. Since I do not seem to have any packet software on my system that I can detect, I'll bow out of this dust-up defeated in the battle, but winning the war :)

Many blessings

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:47 am
by Ken Berry
And not only does Nero burn 'without any appreciable loss in quality", it burns with no unappreciable loss in quality either! :lol: It is in effect the same as burning in VS. If you have Nero 8, plus all the free downloadable menu templates for it, you will even find that it is now a good competitor of VS11 on the authoring front. In other words, you can simply convert your edited project to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 in VS, and then author that fully to DVD in Nero with menus etc. Authoring was not quite as developed in Nero 7, and much worse in earlier versions.

As for your cup of tea timing, that raises just a little flag for me -- unless you take quite some time to make the tea, that is! It suggests you are probably using the top rated burn speed in Nero for the blank discs you are using. That may work most of the time. But if you distribute the DVDs and people report that their stand-alone players have difficulty playing the disc, then you might want to consider reducing the burn speed to a (much) lower speed. For instance, I use Ritek 8x or 12x blanks because I find them consistently good. But I never burn them at more than 4x. Higher speed rated discs e.g. 16x and above, will probably not allow such a low burning speed. But you then use 6x or 8x instead.

While some dispute this, the idea is to allow the burning laser just a little more time to more firmly embed the signal in the disk. This increases the possibility that more reading lasers will have no trouble reading it. Yes, it takes a little longer to get your disc, but heck, the whole editing process is such a long one, that what are a few more minutes? :lol: 8)

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:30 pm
by Smokey
OK Ken. Points well taken.
There is a controversy with the burn speeds, but 8X with high speed disks
have been shown to give excellent quality (depending on the disk type, burner etc.) Some of the reports we can now reference are from old burners and old disks (prior to 2007 is old).... I used to burn slow too, but now 8X is slow to me so this is my 'new' slow speed.... I would agree that trying to exceed 8X is a reduction in quality though.
I will admit that your protocol is better in making a disk folder than a disk image. Funny how you get stuck into a routine. I always had success before with the create disk until now using AVCHD.
As for my 'cup of tea'. It is a pot of special Persian blend with takes time to steep.
Plenty of time for burning as I have to also take time to enjoy it :)
As for your tongue-in-cheek grammatical correction over appreciable, I don't know what dictionary you Canberrrans use, but Websters says:

appreciable adj. large or important enough to be taken into account or noticed adv. noticeably (fr. L. appreciare , to price)
Is unappreciable a word?.....

So THERE!

Thanks for all your help. You are a good egg :D