Smart render available for AVCHD files?

uleadme · Post by **uleadme** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:14 am

Hi all,

I haven't posted here for quite some time. I've been a user of VS9 for a while, but now that I have a AVCHD flash-based camcorder (Canon HF10) I will have to upgrade to VS11 plus.

Before I do so I just want to MAKE SURE that it has the smart render function for AVCHD (m2ts) files at PF 25 fps at 1920 x 1080 resolution. From reading around the forums I think it does, but I just want to be sure.

Also just checking whethere VS11 can import these files from my camcorder. The blurb says it can, but I's like confirmation that it does so without any issues.

thanks

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:59 am

It can, but I don't think you would want to smart-render AVCHD video because of it's high compression method.
So the answer is Yes & No. It also depends whether the AVC/H264 is in PS or TS format.

I turn off smart-rendering for avchd and the videos look fine.
I first convert my avchd videos to standard definition mpeg2 dvd compliant videos.
I then use those dvd compliant videos for editing.
Making sure the "Re-Link" feature is turned on after I save the project I then either move the original mpeg2 dvd compliant videos or replace them with the original avchd vidoes.
After your done editing the standard mpeg2 and save the project then rename their folder so when you reload the project VS asks you to relink the videos. That's where you then select the original avchd videos. This is my own method using the dvd compliant videos as proxy files (plus I have them to make a standard dvd).
When I render the file or burn an avchd disk I turn off smartrender and the avchd vidoes look fine. I prefer using this proxy method compared to VS method of working with proxy files. Plus I also have them all in DVD compliant format.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:48 am

Uleadme -- you also need to know that it is VS11.5+, not just VS11+, for AVCHD. But the path to get 11.5 is the same. You buy VS11+, then go to the Ulead.com > Download site and install, in this order, the update patch of 6 November 2007 and the Power Pack of 8 November. You only need the Hot Fix of December 2007 if you have a problem in installing VS11+ which is described in the Hot Fix note. Then, when you click on the ? sign in the top right of the VS screen, your version should be 11.5.0157.2

uleadme · Post by **uleadme** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:50 am

Thanks for the replies. Seems like a complex path to get there but I'll try. Particularly thanks for the heads up on what to install and the order in which to do so.

The software companies are certainly taking their time with AVCHD, even Sony (Vegas etc) who developed it? Got to be a simpler solution soon.

sherman39 · Post by **sherman39** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:17 pm

You may wish to know that VS12 has been released in Japan.
So doubtless it will be available to the rest of us "soon"

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:12 pm

The software companies are certainly taking their time with AVCHD

Better to take their time and get it right than continually patching things that don't work.

John Moran_2 · Post by **John Moran_2** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:58 pm

Ken Berry wrote:Uleadme -- you also need to know that it is VS11.5+, not just VS11+, for AVCHD. But the path to get 11.5 is the same. You buy VS11+, then go to the Ulead.com > Download site and install, in this order, the update patch of 6 November 2007 and the Power Pack of 8 November. You only need the Hot Fix of December 2007 if you have a problem in installing VS11+ which is described in the Hot Fix note. Then, when you click on the ? sign in the top right of the VS screen, your version should be 11.5.0157.2

Amazon is currently featuring a boxed version "Ulead VideoStudio 11.5 Plus " in the USA, but apparently only the box has been changed from the VS 11.0 Plus version. Download of the 11.5 Power Pack is still required. Installed "Ulead VideoSudio 11.5 Plus, with downloaded Power Pack, but less the optional "hotfix" download results in a version number of 11.5.0157.1.
JM_2

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:46 pm

Yes. To get the final 2 you have to also download and install the original update patch of 6 November 2007 -- the one at the bottom of the three that are there (patch, Power Pack, Hot Fix).

John Moran_2 · Post by **John Moran_2** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:21 am

Recap-
There must be more than one download page for VS11+ upgrades. I'll go throught the drill again, and recheck all the files sizes, dates, and properties again. Some day I will quit reading everything I can find and try to actually use VS 11.5+ for editing AVCHD files from the 16GB SDHD card from the Canon HF-100.

The last time I did any serious movie splicing was with 8mm film in 1965! Bought a color TV the following month, watched a National Geographic special program and gave up on Do It Yourself. Came out of retirement and bought one of the worst movie cameras ever made - the Bolex 155 Super 8, wasted a lot of money, and retired from filming again. Did several dozen cassettes of VHS and 8mm analog tape in the 1980's and early 1990's at kids' school sporting events. Completely bypassed the digital tape camcorder era.

Now, in 2008, it seems he AVCHD camera is so lightweight it is necessary to hang a 30 pound tripod off the bottom for ballast. Haven't even figured out how to manually focus the zoom lens for closeups, let alone fight with "slow" computer problems. All because somebody said, "We have to get a video camera 10 days ago". Grandkids are growing up.

JM_2

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:29 am

The page with the 3 updates is http://www.ulead.com/tech/vs/vs_ftp.htm

John Moran_2 · Post by **John Moran_2** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:04 am

Thanks for the link, Ken.

Update is installed, and version number agrees with yours. Guess I did not pass the test for being smart enough to use VS 11.5+, if I could not pan down offscreen on my 1280x800 screen on two different pages to find and install second patch.

JM_2

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:05 am

In my opinion AVCHD is NOT an easily editable format, and you don't want to directly edit in that format, it's simply uses to high of a compression ratio/method.

If you have a fast computer the ulead software does a pretty good job working with avchd video. If your computer is alittle slow then use proxy files. But I use proxy files anyway on my quad computer, so I can see my results in real-time from the timeline. Remember, my proxy files are dvd compliant, so when working with avchd the first thing I do is us the "Batch Convert" utility to make dvd mpeg2 compliant video files. Then I've accomplished making standard dvd's from the high definition source videos.

When your finished with the project just manually replace the proxies with the real High Def videos to produce the final project.
I use the Re-Link Feature to so this and the ulead software takes care of the rest. But in the final output I usually turn off smart-rendering (under Options Icon) for AVCHD video itself.

Quijote · Post by **Quijote** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:37 pm

Hi,
I've seen this topic come up before.

There is absolutely no reason not to edit AVCHD files using proxy files IF your desired output is going to be HD or BlueRay or just AVCHD back to the camera. If all you want is a DVD, then the suggestion to convert the files before placing them on the timeline is helpful.

That said, I almost always put AVCHD directly on the timeline and use proxy files. Now remember, the proxy files have to render before they will be useful and large AVCHD files will take some time. So put them on the timeline and go to dinner. After you finish cleaning up, your timeline will be ready for editing. You will then be free to output anything you want (including HD) with no problem.

That is why Videostudio is so cool!

www.sailingflamenco.com

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:01 pm

Quijote,
Interesting, I don't output my proxy files to a new mpeg file, at least I haven't had to although that's good if I'm also going to make a dvd.

I would like ulead to add a "REPLACE" feature to use on the timeline. Other video editors have this feature.
So while on the timeline you can right_click on the video and select "Replace", then navigate to the new video file you want to really render.
This way you can replace the proxy files directly in the project and save it as a different name. The older named project would be the one using the proxy files and you can always fall back to it if necessary.

The program seems to keep track of the all the editing in the VSP file, but I do turn off smart-rendering when outputting.

Even though AVCHD makes smaller file sizes with good HD quality I find it much easier to deal with HD-Mpeg2 video. Especially playing back High Def on the computer screen. AVCHD can be very picky depending on the player you have installed, such as Nero 8 or PowerDvd 7/8.

AVCHD disks are pretty nice, I have no problems playing them back in a PS3 unit. Usually I use MovieFactory 6 Plus to perform much of my work. MF6+ lets you tailor the video/audio parameters of the AVC/H264 video. It also lets you export multiple files, what it doesn't have compared to VS is all the editing features.

But, using Proxy Files and MF6+, after I finish the project in VS using regular Mpeg files I then replace them with their AVCHD ones.
Then I open MF6+ and load the VS project which then I can customize the video/audio specs avc/h264 and export the VS project from MF6+, I guess it worked because I have both programs installed, not sure. Usually it works.

If I remember correctly I can't get MF6+ to work with proxy files that easily.
But VS works with the proxies much better.

I'm using a quad computer and it still works hard when making avchd projects.

If you want to add AVC/H264 templates in VS use the ADD feature under 'Make Movie Manager", highlight the existing avchd video file and VS will use it's properties as a template (do not edit the template).
When you goto "Share -> Create Video File -> look at the bottom of the list and your new AVCHD template will be listed.
So you can use your existing AVCHD videos as templates using the ADD feature under "Make Movie Manager", just don't click on the EDIT Icon under the "Make Movie Manager" when the AVC/H264 template is highlighted.

I just finished exporting an avchd video from the VS timeline using 16MBS UFF and customized video/audio parameters. This was accomplished using the described method above.

I still recommend turning OFF smart-render under the Options Icon because AVCHD is so complex.

michelb · Post by **michelb** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:41 pm

etech6355 wrote: I still recommend turning OFF smart-render under the Options Icon because AVCHD is so complex.

I'm wondering what's the advantage of turning smart-render off. I just got my AVCHD camera and I haven't done any serious editing yet. Does it have to do with rendering problems I've read about on this board?

Thanks