HD output - WMV Question

Dieselboy502 · Post by **Dieselboy502** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:16 pm

Ok I am pretty new to this but I am having trouble getting high res output files in .wmv format. I am using UVS 11 plus on a 64 bit Vista machine and had to use a workaround to even get my video files imported. Had to use Windows Movie Maker bc UVS wouldn't recognize my capture device (Canon HV 30 High Definition camcorder) so I imported using WMM then had to use VideoReDo Plus to convert the .dvr-ms file to MPEG 2. Finally I edited then when I select output I can get HD output in .mpg but not .wmv. Any suggestions? (It wants to output in Windows Media 8 at like 256 kbps max which is like 320 x 240 frame size)

Also - I had a previous version of this which would let me output to AVI using the DiVX codec but that option seems to have disappeared also on this version.

A few more pieces of info. Camera to PC connect is HDV Firewire 1394 and format is NTSC 1080i Native

Dieselboy502 · Post by **Dieselboy502** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:27 pm

ok DiVX issue resolved as I forgot to install DiVX converter on new machine...duh

Also, I searched and found what I thought would solve my wmv issue - downloaded newest DirectX and WMV 9 (x64) encoder then rebooted but still only getting Windows Media 8 options from the custom profile menu under share video. Any suggestions other than using the WMV encoder separately after outputting to mpeg?

boxy · Post by **boxy** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:40 pm

Strange that it doesn't recognize your HV30. It does for me. Not sure what else to tell you about that.

toni1 · Post by **toni1** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:03 pm

Its funny VS dont recognize HC30 ( dont know if this camcorder outputs in mpeg2-ts or program streem ?)
I have been discussing this mater in prevoius posts.
I've succeded making wmv-hd out of mpeg2-hd with my HC1 sony cam without problem (output about 40% of mpeg2-hd size)
search for posts under my name for full infmation

Dieselboy502 · Post by **Dieselboy502** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:36 pm

Funny but it now seems to recognize the camera (just checked again after a render). Maybe the DirectX update or the Windows Media 9 encoder install did this?

Also after searching Toni1 posts I found a thread that says I can actually get HD WMV output by uninstalling the 64x encoder and choosing the 32x encoder instead (even tho I am using 64x Vista). Is this correct, and if so, would u recommend doing this instead of using the 64x encoder separately to produce WMV HD output? I have just successfully used the 64x encoder to produce 2 files using my first UVS output file as the source (1920 x 1080 square aspect MPEG 2) The files I created are 1920 x 1080 square aspect at 5Mbps HD video VBR (2 pass) and 1920 x 1080 square aspect at Highest video (100 VBR) and Lossless audio (100 VBR). Is it better to produce in UVS or in 64x encoder?

Also, should I be using 1.3 aspect for 1440 x 1080 output instead? What about 720p output? SO many questions here.......

This is both incredibly interesting and mind numbing....don't know if I need coffee or sleep (or both)

toni1 · Post by **toni1** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:22 pm

Dont know about VS11.5 but VS10.5 I used did not have the right microsoft codec and encoder upon install
I did install them and got them on the list of codec only by parallel installation of MediaStudo 8 (testing edition) dont know why.
This is o more an issue I assumesince you got the codecs upon listing (custom)
Anyway I cant anwer for 64 bits since I have only a 32 bits capacities.
To be accurate I stoped doing this becuse it takes a lot of time rendering.
Now I edit my videos to make them smaller size ( trming ans keepig only interresting parts then smart redering which is a very fast process ) and export mpeg2-hd edited files on external 500 gigas usb2 hard drives (price of such dd are loweering ) and read those fils through computer connected with hdmi to high def projector.
I keep a copy in case on another 500 gigas hard drive;
Well I'll keep on this till Blue ray discs be accessible in term of price per octet

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:08 am

Dieselboy -- I don't know anything about your problem with WMV as it is simply not a format I use. So hopefully someone else will be able to help you there.

However, I am a bit mystified about the two mpeg-2 files you say you have created. Well, at least it is progress. But I am not sure if it is positive progress. First, you are using 1920 x 1080 frame size for HDV from your HV30. Yet the HV30 is like my HV20 and films using a frame size of 1440 x 1080. So increasing the frame size as you have means that Video Studio has to invent 480 horizontal pixels effectively out of thin air. This inevitably means a loss in quality. So in the first place, if you are going from HDV to another HDV file, I would use the native frame size of 1440 x 1080.

Next, you say one of the files you produced used a VBR max 5 Mbps. That is only an average quality bitrate even for standard definition video, and way too low for high definition. Your HDV straight from the camera uses a CBR of 25 Mbps. So in fact, if you want equal quality from your edited files, I would be using 1440 x 1080, Upper Field First, 16:9, CBR 25 Mbps and the native mpeg layer 2 audio 16 bit stereo and 384 kbps as my properties.

The other file you say used 'VBR 100'. Well, I have to confess I don't know what you mean by that. If you mean 'VBR 100 Mbps' then I don't even have any idea how you achieved it. Apart from your camera using a CBR of 25 Mbps, I was under the impression that the maximum allowable bitrate for HDV, by international standards, was VBR 35 mbps which in practice would probably be around about CBR 25 Mbps anyway... And I didn't think it was even possible to set 100 Mbps, let alone find a player that could even see that speed...

Dieselboy502 · Post by **Dieselboy502** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:00 am

Let me clarify a bit. Yes the camera puts out 1440 x 1080 but at a pixel aspect ratio of 1.3:1 which is the same as 1920 x 1080 at a pixel aspect of 1:1. So I was asking which output is better.

I don't know much about bitrate but I just know that in one profile Windows Media Encoder 9 (x64) set a max of 5Mbps (they called this HD quality) and next was 2Mbps (they called this DVD quality) Came out at 1920 x 1080 (1.1 pixel aspect)and a 296 MB file size.

The other one I output was a custom profile and 100 VBR was just *maximum quality (scale of 1 - 100) and the output file I have is showing in properties a final bitrate of 44608kbps and an audio bitrate of 617 kbps. This one came out at 1440 x 1080 but with a pixel aspect ratio of 1.3:1. Also a large file (2.45GB)

The video is just over 8 minutes in length

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:53 am

I think you need to be capturing in true HDV compliant, which is 1440x1080 frame size. Unless your cam has a harddisk but I think the HV30 is also tape based.
Maybe if your camcorder can record in 1920x1080 it can down convert on the fly but I doubt it.

You can use HDVSplit to capture from your hd-cam and insert them into the program.
Windows MovieMaker 6 for Vista has a pre-built HD-WMV profile that's 1440x1080 @ 8MBS. It makes great looking HD-WMV's.

Not sure how you installed Divx on a 64 bit platform. It can read the files but I didn't think you could encode. At least I couldn't get the Divx encoder working on my Vista 64 machine. The Divx website says 32 bit I think. But I can playback the Divx videos created on other machines.

HDVSplit, you don't need the added ffdshow audio decoder, just preview from your cams LCD screen and turn previewing off in HDVSplit (great utility program).
So if VS has problems capturing then give HDVSplit a try.
HDVSplit:
http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvsplit.htm

You also need to make custom HD-WMV templates and usually at 8,000kbs.

Dieselboy502 · Post by **Dieselboy502** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:46 am

I guess I was too ignorant to notice that DiVX was not supported on Vista 64x yet I installed it and have been able to output AVI files using the DiVX codec and have been able to use to the converter to create .divx files from HDV MPEG 1080 60i files. Go figure.....

Now I have yet to burn a disc of one and put it in a 360 so we shall see there.

I still cant get WMV HD profile options in UVS tho. Do I need to uninstall the 64x Windows Media 9 encoder and install the 32x one like was suggested in another thread? I am still only getting WMV 8 options with tiny frame sizes and 1400 kbps max bit rate.

toni1 · Post by **toni1** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:41 pm

VS10+ back in 2006 did not include the right codec or encoders to make WMV-HD file types. Maybe the problem is the same with VS11.5

To get WMV-HD files out of my MPEG2-HD in 6 quality options, the installed components I used are :
- WMencoder version : 5.50.4134.600
- WM9 codec (version 6.0.2900.2172)
- Ulead mediaStudio8 ( testing version,) was neccessary to integrate those files as Ulead compliant WMV files (see the file name of these codecs : Ulead-WMV )

This created 6 different quality options called Ulead-WMV-HD (3 in 1024 and 3 in 720) and accessible with VS10 plus
I first edited in native MPEG2-HD and rendered the result in MPEG2-HD (fast smart render); I then imported that file on the timeline and used the manual "SHARE" fuction to convert to WMV-HD
Result when converting from mpeg2-hd is very good (like the original hd mpeg2 files from my sony HC1 camcorder) , around 35-40% of original size using highest Ulead-WMV-HD quality compression;

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:22 am

Dieselboy502,
On my Vista 32 machine I use Windows Movie Maker 6 to create my HighDefintion HD-WMV video files. After you install the Windows Media 9 encoder look under your installation directories. I can't remember the correct directory locations right now for ulead and Movie Maker but I make custom HD-WMV profiles, save them. Then I copy these profiles to the Windows Movie Maker 6 program and also to the location that ulead looks for them. I load my High Def Videos and when outputting the custom templates appear, I copy them to the MovieMakers 6 Profile directory. The directions on how to do all this step by step is included in MovieMaker 6 under Vista.
The HighDefinition Templates must be High Definition Compiiant or Movie Maker 6 will not display them.

The reason I use Windows Movie Maker 6 is it's really fast. Uses all 4 cores of my computer at about 85%. So I'll perform editing using the ulead software and output to a High Definition Mpeg2 video file. Then, I'll use that as the source video in Windows Movie Maker 6.

You can also use the ulead software to encode WMV, but under Vista Movie Maker 6 really does a fine job. So if you use ulead to encode you would use the same profile template to encode in Windows Movie Maker.
The thing about Windows Movie Maker 6 is it forces you to make a HD-WMV compliant video. These HD-WMV videos playback fine on my external divx/wmv player.

I do use the ulead software to make all my HD-Divx videos. They come out great and also playback on the external player.

I'll have to get back to you where the directories to store HD-WMV profiles that you can use in either the ulead products or MovieMaker 6.
Learning how to make the profiles is the hard part, there are so many options in the windows profile encoder.

I see you have an e-mail address that's visible, I could even e-mail the template profiles that I use. Then you simply copy them into the correct directories. I'm also talking about Vista, not XP.

Dieselboy502 · Post by **Dieselboy502** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:46 am

I have added my email as visible to my profile so if you want to email e a template that would be great. Right now I am using the Windows Media 9 Encoder x64 to create HD-WMV . I could also use some general tips on standard output bitrate/frame size for various mediums like DiVX, MPEG, WMV. I also read somewhere where you can make H 2.64 full screen HD output but haven't figured that out either. I am guessing Quicktime Pro?

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:56 pm

Create custom movie settings for Windows Movie Maker or Ulead products

Windows Movie Maker Templates Location:
<SystemDrive>:\Program Files\Movie Maker\Shared\Profiles (Note: You have to manually create/make this Profiles directory)

Ulead WMV Profiles Directory:
<SystemDrive>:\Ulead Systems\Ulead VideoStudio 11\Profiles
Example: C:\Program Files\Ulead Systems\Ulead VideoStudio 11\Profiles

After one uses the Windows Media Profile Editor/Encoder to use these profiles into the approxiate "Ulead Profiles" Directory.
EX: For VS it would be "C:\Program Files\Ulead Systems\Ulead VideoStudio 11\Profiles"
EX: For MF it would be "C:\Program Files\Ulead Systems\Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6\Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6\Profiles"

Windows Movie Maker has many settings that you can choose to use when publishing your movie. However, you can also create your own custom settings to use when publishing your movie. The settings you choose when publishing a movie determine the quality and size of the final published movie file.

To create a custom setting, you must first install Windows Media Profile Editor, which is installed with Windows Media Encoder 9 Series. You can download and install Windows Media Encoder 9 Series from the Microsoft website.

The following list contains tips for creating valid custom settings by using Windows Media Profile Editor. By following these tips, you can ensure that the custom setting that you create is valid and usable in Windows Movie Maker.

Only choose CBR or Quality VBR encoding modes in Windows Media Profile Editor. Windows Movie Maker supports constant bit rate (CBR) or quality-based variable bit rate (Quality VBR) encoding modes only. Therefore, when creating custom settings for Windows Movie Maker, you must choose one of these two encoding modes. Two-pass encoding cannot be used in Windows Movie Maker. For detail information about encoding modes, see Windows Media Profile Editor Help.

Make sure that the custom setting contains one audio stream or one audio stream and one video stream. In Windows Movie Maker, a custom setting must contain either one audio stream or one audio stream and one video stream. Custom settings that contain only a video stream with no audio stream cannot be used in Windows Movie Maker.

Clear the Script check box in Windows Media Profile Editor. Windows Movie Maker supports audio and video streams only. Other types of streams, such as scripts, are not supported in Windows Movie Maker. To ensure that you can use your custom setting in Windows Movie Maker, make sure that the Script check box is cleared when you save your custom setting in Windows Media Profile Editor.

Clear the Same as video input check box in Windows Media Profile Editor. To ensure that you can use your custom setting in Windows Movie Maker, clear the Same as video input check box on the bit rate tab in Windows Media Profile Editor.

The audio stream cannot contain more than two audio channels. Custom settings that contain audio streams with more than two channels cannot be used in Windows Movie Maker.

To create your own custom settings, follow the steps in the following procedures.

To start Windows Media Profile Editor
Click the Start button , point to Programs, point to Windows Media, point to Utilities, and then click Windows Media Profile Editor.

To create a custom setting
In Windows Media Profile Editor, click the Name box, and then type a name for your custom setting.

This setting name appears in the More settings box in Publish Movie.

Select the Audio check box, and then click either CBR or Quality VBR from the drop-down box.

In the Codec box for audio, click Windows Media Audio 9.x.

Select the Video check box, and then click either CBR or Quality VBR from the drop-down box.

In the Codec box for video, click Windows Media Video 9.

Some codecs might not be supported in Windows Movie Maker.

If necessary, clear the Allow interlace processing and Allow nonsquare pixel output check boxes.

In the Target bit rate area, click Add. In the resulting Bit rate box, type a value for the bit rate followed by K for kilobits or M for megabits, and then click OK.

The number you enter is the total bit rate. If you are creating a quality-based VBR setting, you will not be prompted to type a bit rate.

On the new tab that displays, click the Video size box, and then enter a display size (width x height) for your video.

To save the custom setting
In Windows Media Profile Editor, click Save and Close.

Click the File name box, and then type a file name.

Navigate to the Documents folder.

Click Save.

To copy the custom setting:
To copy the custom setting to the correct Movie Maker folder that appears under Program Files, you need to be logged into Windows as an administrator or as a member of the Administrators group.

Click the Start button , point to Programs, point to Accessories, and then click Windows Explorer.

In Computer, navigate to the following folder location:

<SystemDrive>:\Program Files\Movie Maker\Shared

where SystemDrive is the drive letter on which Windows Vista is installed.

Click Organize, and then click New Folder.

If a Destination Folder Access Denied dialog displays, click Continue.

In the User Account Control dialog box, click Continue.

Type Profiles for the folder name, and then press ENTER.

If another Destination Folder Access Denied dialog box displays, click Continue.

In the resulting User Account Control dialog box, click Continue.

In Computer, navigate to your Documents folder where you saved the custom setting, click the custom setting file (which has a .prx file name extension), click Organize, and then click Copy.

Navigate to the following folder: <Drive>:\Program Files\Movie Maker\Shared\Profiles.

Click Organize, and then click Paste.

If another Destination Folder Access Denied dialog box displays, click Continue.

In the User Account Control dialog box, click Continue.

To publish a movie in Windows Movie Maker by using a custom setting
In Windows Movie Maker, import the video and other content that you want to include in your movie, and then add it to the storyboard/timeline.

Click File, click Publish Movie.

Click This computer, and then click Next.

In the File name box, type a file name.

In the Publish to box, choose where you want to save your movie once it's published, and then click Next.

Click More settings, click the custom setting that you created, and then click Publish.

If the custom setting does not appear in the More settings box, try creating the setting again by using different settings and by following the tips above for creating valid custom settings for use in Windows Movie Maker. Although the setting you created may be valid, the specific settings might not be supported in Windows Movie Maker.

See also
Movie settings: frequently asked questions
Publish a movie

Sorry about the double spacing

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:00 pm

Other tips:

Windows Video 9 (standard) encoding does not allow Interlaced encoding for High Definition.

Windows Video 9 Professional allows for Interlaced encoding for High Defintion Video which would be intended more for a consumer hardware playback device etc.

Generally when encoding in either one of the above formats non-interlaced is the most standard format to use.

The windows encoder generally likes square pixels, so 1280x720 or 1920x1080- would be a good selection for conversion. Under the windows profile encoder you would "Uncheck" "Perform Non-Square Pixel Rendering" because your target framesizes would be using "Square Pixels" such as 1280x720 or 1920x1080.