Is this software rubbish or am I unlucky? VERRRRY SLOW

[richsimpson]

Hi there, I wonder if anyone has any suggestions fo rme to help with my problem.

I bought Ulead video studio 11.5 as I have just got a AVCHD camcorder in advance of the birth of our first child.

Thinking its a good idea to get to grips with the program I had a bash at re-editing our wedding dvd. That was all dvd files that I brought into a new project, edited, added music etc. That worked fine.

Great I thought. Good piece of software. And didnt take too long, maybe 4 hours for a 2-3 hour film.

SO to the problem...I have recorded onto my pc via a tv/video card about 4 hours of footage from the tv. Usually I would put it thorugh tmpeg author but at 12gb of material it waqs too much. I thought it would be ideal chance to try videostudio again.

Set up the project with the chapters and set to make a dvd folder of 8.5gb for a dual layer dvd.

Starts well, get to 25% in about half hour to 45 mins. So leave it overnight to complete. Its now 20 hours+ and still only at about 80%. I have looked at the temporary folder where the file is being saved and its suddenty taking ages for the file size to increase at all.

Tried it again and done the same again.

Seems to be that upto 70% is quick and then its dog slow. Never actually seen if it comletes because 70% up to 80% takes like 8 hours.

Is there an issue with my setup or is it just the program thats crap?

I heard it was CPU intensive and needs good pc so had upgrades and started fresh with a amd phenom 9500 quad core, got 4gb of ram (although only shows 3gb as XP Pro 32 bit), pleanty of hard drive space.

Just to give more info, the CPU is running at only 25-30% all the time and other programs can be opened without slowing the system to a stutter.

Please has anyone got any thoughts or feedback. I will try anything (within reason) but want to get this working so that when its really improtant its not an issue.

12gb of material thats recorded in mpeg2 format and trying to burn out to a dvd compliant file of 8.5gb, only got the output set to dvd Pal 4:3 to match the original files.

HELPPPPP Please!

Rich

[DVDDoug]

20 hours is a long time, especially on your fast system... I wouldn't wait that long... I'd look for some alternative, such as using a 3-rd party conversion program.

The rendering time can vary a lot, depending on the original format and the kind of editing you do. Rendering is CPU intensive. The Video Studio MPEG-2 encoder can take advantage of at least 2 of your CPU cores... I'm not sure if it can use all 4 cores. However, I have the impression that some of the decoders are single-threaded, so the full transcoding process can't take full-advantage of your system.

Some of the highly compressed formats can take a long time, and HD can take a long time too. People who make DVDs from DivX files (or other MPEG-4 variations) often complain that it takes 8-12 hours. If you are changing the framerate and/or resolution along with the format, it will add to the transcoding time.

Sometimes, there is something "wrong" with the file (maybe some slight corruption) or Video Studio just doesn't "like" the particular file/format... It might have trouble rendering/transcoding, and it might take a long time or freeze-up.

Since your wedding DVDs are already DVD-compatible, the rendering can go very fast. For example, if you just make a few cuts, splices and transitions, and if you use Smart Render, it should be able to render in a few minutes. But, if you apply a something like a color-adjustment filter to the entire video, it will take much longer because each frame has to be decompressed, processed, and re-compresssed.

For your captured TV files (and maybe your AVCHD files), you might try using a 3rd-party conversion program to convert the file to DVD compatible MPEG-2 before bringing the video into Video Studio. I usually use SUPER (FREE!!!). It's kind-of a screwy program, and it can take a few hours too, but it's got me "out of trouble" a few times. (You can copy the MPEG-2 settings from one of the Video Studio project templates.)

In the future, if your TV card allows you to capture in AVI/DV, this is usually the most trouble-free format for editiing or converting to other formats. (Make sure it's DV. There are many different AVI formats.) Or, your capture card may have a DVD-compatible MPEG-2 option. MPEG-2 can be more difficult to edit, but if you are doing minimal editing the process can go faster.

[Ken Berry]

The other thing you might want to check is to disable the menu animations. I am not talking about having motion video backgrounds, but fade-ins and outs of the menu itself. It's on the Edit tab of the second page of the burning module (Gallery/Edit) down towards the bottom on the left-hand side of screen. Menu-In is disabled by default. Leave it that way. But Menu-Out has an animation enabled, and I found that when I used it, my burn time went for absolutely hours. Once, it even caused the program to crash. So disable it.

I also wonder about your workflow. It sounds to me like you are editing, then jumping straight to the burning module (Share > Create Disc). If you are, then I would suggest you first convert your project to a single, new DVD-compatible mpeg-2 in the Editing module: Share > Create Video File. Given your initial starting size (12.5 GB of what I assume to be mpeg-2), you would need to adjust down the bitrate. So I would choose Share > Create Video File > Custom. Then I would adjust the properties in the dialogue box which appears. You would probably need a bitrate of around 6000 kbps and use one of the compressed audio formats such as Dolby or mpeg layer 2.

Then, when you have your new mpeg-2, start a new project. Don't bother about a name for it -- the objective is just to clear the timeline. Then open the burning module (Share > Create Disc > DVD). Insert your new mpeg-2 into the burning module. First, go to the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of screen and make sure that 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked. Then check to see if your chapter marks have made the transition. Build your menu, disabling the animations I mentioned above, then "burn" your folder. This time it should go much faster.

Next, a couple of housekeeping things. First, click the ? symbol in the top right of the VS screen, then 'About VS'. The version shown should be VS 11.5.0157.2. If it is not, then go to the Ulead.com site, choose the Download button along the top and follow the prompts to update patches for Video Studio, Install, in this order, only these two patches -- the update patch of 6 November 2007 and the Power Pack of 8 November. Ignore the later Hot Fix.

Next, go to the Microsoft DirectX website and download the latest update patch for that, dated June 2008. It works on both XP and Vista. Note that DirectX is not updated as part of the Windows regular automatic updates so you have to do it manually. Note also that it seems to correct some faults people have been having in the VS burning module.

[richsimpson]

Thanks for your prompt feedback, thats very much appreciated. 6 hours later its moved from 80 to 83%. Think I will leave it for tomorrow to see if there is any outcome!

Thanks Ken for the advice on creating video file first. I had assumed that may degrade the quality but theoretically I guess its going to be the same? Will give that a bash tomorrow.

Just for clarity, incase this assists in your thoughts/feedback, I am using a adaptec videocard for the capture, using win dvr as the program to record the footage (Purely becaue you can timer the recordings, so you can have a few 60 min cuts). Does the recording via videostudio make the footage come in the correct or a more prgram friendly format.

The settings are limited within the windvr program and the only reason I continue with it is because previously if you left it recording, only the first file would be okay to use, the others said they were uncompatible with the editing software (tmpeg dvd author), it seemed they were not compliant files, they were being saved as projectname.mpg, then projectname-1.mpg. This was as they were split into different files.

Maybe someone can confirm if a 3 -4 hour program could be recorded and used without any errors?

The detail in windvr said that when recording at good/better or best modes the formats were as follows:

audio always the same - mpeg1 version2. 44.1khz 16bit stereo, 224 kbits/sec
video was always 720x576 PAL

Then Good was 3600 kbits/sec, better was 5200 kbits/sec and best (which I used) was 6800 kbits/sec.

When I imported a file into videostudio, and then right click/properties they detailed it as UPPER FIELD FIRST, then all the same settings as detailed above.

Would the default output be set as lower, and so meant that all the video had to be re rendered/edited. Would changing the output to UpFieldFfirst also along with a variable, or even a pre set kb/s output be better/quicker or would the program just take that into account and set it as it should be. There was only the footage and a menu on the project, no titles/transitions/overlays etc.

I really thought I had got a fair understanding of video editing but I doubt myself now!

Thanks for your additional feedback if you get a chance.

[Ken Berry]

The basic rule of video editing is *ALWAYS* leave the field order as it is. If the captured video says it is Upper Field First, you MUST keep that throughout the project, including during the burning process. Similarly, if the video starts life as Lower Field First, it must be maintained as that. And you cannot mix UFF and LFF video in the one project. If you get the field order wrong, you will quickly see the results, particularly if your video has action shots or lots of panning. Motion is choppy and straight vertical lines appear very jagged. Not a good look!!

So if your default project properties use Lower Field First as its default, then that has to be changed for this video to UFF. And when you edit and produce a new mpeg-2, you have to make sure its settings also use UFF. If you have changed the project properties to reflect this, then it is easy: you choose Share > Create Video File > Same as Project Properties.

I was initially slightly concerned by your description of the video as being mpeg-1 version 2. But I think it is really mpeg-2 given the other properties you cite. Mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 are quite different, particularly in quality. Mpeg-1 is significantly lower in quality than mpeg-2. Both can be burned to DVD, though the more common is mpeg-2.

For what it is worth, I used to have a Win TV/capture card which came with Win PVR as its control and recording device. I made sure it was set to capture in DVD format best quality. Then I would open it in Video Studio (version 8 and 9 as they were at the time). And I never had any trouble with DVD-quality mpeg-2 captured that way. Capturing direct with Video Studio would use the same properties for it too, but I used PVR because it gave me slightly more flexible controls over the capture, including colour balance, gamma etc.

As for capturing and editing 3 - 4 hours of video that way, I don't know. I have never tried. The most I have ever captured in one go using a TV card as the source has been around 2.5 hours, and there was no problem with that as the only editing I did with these types of video was to cut out the ads. Others will be better placed to comment on longer captures and edits.

[richsimpson]

Okay, got bored of waiting after 26 hours!

Started project again from scrath with same footage after checking all updates were installed.

Watched it go thorugh, and every second or so the temporay file increased in size by say 2000kb. Looked good right up to 72%. This is the same figure as the last time it suddenly slowed down.

25 mins in and 15% (of the video, not total project) completed, 1,096,708kb
43mins 26% 1,911,472kb
1hr04 40% 2,918,120
1h1 44% 3,204,524
1h 23 53% 3,837,808
1h 53 72% (26% overall of project) 5,198,416kb

up to that point everything going fine then suddenly slow.

Isn't that around the size of a single layer DVD?

As its bound to take the same 24 hours plus to get near to 80% I will cancel again and try again. I checked the project properties and thats set to UFF automatically from what I have put in the timeline.

In output it was set as NO FIELD rather than Upper field, or Lower field/DV. I have changed to UFF this time to see if that changes anything and will report back. thanks for continued help and support. Appreciate it guys.

Ken, the detail I gave suprised me, but it was like that word for word! It was referring to audio proerties thogh when it said Mpeg 1 Version2. Bit strange!

Will certainly try to record via the video studio recorder/capture. On mine I tried a small test and on a 2 min video clip coverting to a dvd it worked with iput via the tv card recorded on both windvr and also videostudio.

The Videostudio version was a bit quicker to make a dvd compliant file. The videostudio program though did not allow you to see what was be recorded. Although I have the TV right along side and did get audio. That was only at recording stage though. The final result did have video and audio!

Incidentaly, is there a way to produce a larger than DVD compliant file, ie a 12gb version which could then be reduced using some other software?

Would be happy to do that, create an oversize DVD and then use something like DVD Shirnk to reduce the size.

[Ken Berry]

Ah! The audio is mpeg 1 layer 2, which is a standard audio format for DVDs. Mind you, it is not part of the NTSC international standard, though in practice most NTSC players these days have not trouble with it. It is, however, part of the PAL international standard, and indeed the format used by high definition HDV format cameras! So that's OK.

As for making a 12 GB DVD Folder, I guess it can be done, though you would need to ignore the warning notices from VS saying you are exceeding the limits. You can then use a program like DVD Shrink or Nero ReCode to reduce it to fit. I have done this once or twice, though never on quite as large a file as 12 GB. It has, however, been larger than the dual layer 8.6 GB, and worked quite well.

[richsimpson]

So the audio bits okay then. Thats good to know!

Just the rest of it to fix now!!!

I can't see a way to output more than the nomal 8.5gb DVD-9 Maximum though. I fyu go past the warnings it justs says its going to make it fit!

If I attempted to burn to Blue ray or HD DVD woudl that allow the same output style just on to a larger disc, as if you were putting standard deff on to a larger disc? If thats possible then that may work.

The current process si same project burning in UFF but it is going to shrink it to a disc as part and parcel of the process...

I am sure this software is good, but I need something to prove it!

Thans again Ken and any other input is welcome from anyone with any ideas what to try next.

Its now 3am so loggin of and will see if any outocme in the mornign (will post back)

If thats no good will try to output the next one to a video file during the dfay whilst im out at the office.

I noticed there were some optiosnfor that such as DVD pal and Mpeg2, shoudl I jsut send to MPeg 2 at that stage or try to put to DVD pal. I want to still put a proper menu on at the end so think I just need the file in mpeg 2 to put through the next phase?

1 hr in now and 38% complete. No doubt its all going to be fine up to the 72% mark some time in the next hour!

[sjj1805]

.......
In output it was set as NO FIELD rather than Upper field, or Lower field/DV. I have changed to UFF this time to see if that changes anything and will report back. thanks for continued help and support. Appreciate it guys......

Aha... you ARE changing the field order. Going from upper OR lower field to NO Field is changing the field order. This causes a complete render of the video which can be tediously slow. More importantly you can cause other problems such as jerkiness.

Field order is determined by the equipment / method of capture, it is not determined by the final output medium. If you record/capture in lower field it must remain in lower field. If you record/capture in upper field it must remain in upper field etc.

[Ken Berry]

I noticed there were some options for that such as DVD pal and Mpeg2, should I just send to MPeg 2 at that stage or try to put to DVD pal.

Mpg-2 is a general category of video with widely varied possible properties. DVD-compatible mpeg-2 has to adhere to a much more narrowly defined set of international standards which can be burned to a DVD and recognised by a DVD player. So you choose Share > Create Disc > DVD. That will prepare an mpeg-2, yes, but it will follow the international standards for it. And of course, you must have Upper Field First in it...

Re the Blu-Ray or HD DVD possibilities, do you actually have a Blu-Ray or HD DVD burner and the necessary discs?

And is this downloaded video so important that you cannot contemplate dividing it in two?

[richsimpson]

I changed the output to match Upper Field first and same problem. Stuck at 72% and then SLLLLLOOOOWWWW.

Not sure if it would ever finish to be honest.

I dont have blueray or HD DVD but wonder if that output format could possibly work. In the same way that you could output a larger than 4.7GB file and then put through a sepearate program.

Maybe those formats woulde not allow standard DVD compliant files though.

I tried to share the video to a video file rather than DVD and possibly found the problem. Ulead crashed every time I restarted and tried this mode.

So cant output to video file. Possibly the problem.

Will try to uninstall and then reinstall from scratch. Shouldnt have to though as no other system problems whilst running other programs and I think this was my last installed program too.

Will also try copying those files to an external drive and run on my new laptop which is less powerfull but is at least a seperate approach.

If the software struggles with standard deff I doubt it wil be any good with High def footage, which is basically the reason for buying it. Thinking ahead for when my first born arrives.

[sjj1805]

......
I bought Ulead video studio 11.5 as I have just got a AVCHD camcorder in advance of the birth of our first child.

Thinking its a good idea to get to grips with the program I had a bash at re-editing our wedding dvd. That was all dvd files that I brought into a new project, edited, added music etc. That worked fine.

Great I thought. Good piece of software. And didnt take too long, maybe 4 hours for a 2-3 hour film.

SO to the problem...I have recorded onto my pc via a tv/video card about 4 hours of footage from the tv. Usually I would put it thorugh tmpeg author but at 12gb of material it was too much. I thought it would be ideal chance to try videostudio again.......

I just re-read your initial post. Am I right in the following
Recordings from your AVCHD camcorder appear to be fine and render at a reasonable speed.
Recordings from your TV card are slow.

If so let us just concentrate on the TV card.
Firstly a 4 hour TV card recording resulting in 12GB is rather huge - what format are you recording from the TV card in? My TV cards (various Hauppauge cards) record in MPEG2 format not one of the AVI formats.
Thus the file sizes are a lot smaller than that which you stated 12GB.

If this is correct then I have the following 2 observations.
Are the TV card recordings digital or analogue?
I have found that with my particular TV cards digital recordings are fixed at 15000 kbps, however analoge recordings allow you to alter the bit rates. This means that you can set the bit rates at the time of recording, so if you are recording a 1 hour show you can use a fairly high bit rate of 8000 kbps, but if you are recording a 2 hour show you can reduce it to perhaps 4000 kbps.

By setting the appropriate bit rate at the time of recording you save time in the long run because you would not have to later down convert the video to fit on the DVD disc.

The TV card should have its own software which you use to watch and record. This is the best software to use to record the broadcasts because that software is specially tweaked to work with that TV card. Other software such as VideoStudio / MovieFactory and the like - whilst these can record from the TV card, should be regarded as general purpose capture software - able to capture from a wide range of TV cards and other devices, therefore not so specific to the hardware you are using.

Once the recording has been made you can then import it into VideoStudio, MovieFactory or some other software of your choice for editing and authoring.

[richsimpson]

Thanks sjj1805, to clarify I have not tried using the AVCH footage for any long period yet, so not really tested this. I wanted to get familiar with the software first and guessed the easier way would be on Standard Def footage as should be quicker to render and so on.

The video card is recording in Analogue format.

The card is recording in Mpeg 2 format and I have 3 options to select or I can customise the settings.

I had used the Best quality version.

The options were as in my previous post PAL 720x576 4:3 format 25fps
Good 3600 kbits/sec, Better 5200 kbits/sec and best 6800 kbits/sec.

When I import into video studio the footage matches those settings in WinDVR and also states the recordings are Upper Field First.

I have tried to set the output to the same upper field first, do I need to change the KBITs/Sec, it didnt seem to make any difference?

I dont seem to be able to create an oversize file onmy PC to shrink later.

I had a dodgy version of XP Pro so last night reformatted my PC with Vista Home Premium thinking that may be a possible cause but its still the same. Overnight and its 74% done and stuck there.

I tried running the software on my laptop and its crashed on their when trying to share to a video file rather thana DVD too.

Maybe the footage is bad and I should try to recapture?

I really want to get it all onto one dual layer disc and not split it, because it shoud be possible without too much drama.


If you had the footage as I have and wanted to complete the project what steps would you take to get an output. Make a videofile first and then try to reduce to a dvd size?

What ticks should I be removing etc?

I dont htink its anythign to do with smart render because thats to do with the on screen editing.

All I have done is take the 9 files that I have got which are all the same format and import them into Ulead. Started Ulead in the 4:3 option n the welcome page as the footage is 4:3, Then put them in the timeline and on each of the 9 clips taken the adverts off at the start and end of the clips.

Then added chapter points at the start of each on on the timeline and then moved to Share>DVD, in that screen I have turned off the fancy menu fading but there is a menu of about 60mb which is just the first one you chose from (red colour). In the options menus for that page I have selected UFF for the output format to match the original footage.

The output KBits/sec bit rate size I have left as surely it needs to work that out for itself so that it shrinks it as much as it needs to?

Then on the next screen I have selcted to create a video folder and I have turned off create a disc. I woudl be happy to get an oversize disc because I know DVD Shrink works very well to reduce the size, but that is not an option.

As soon as you go to the next stage it reduced on the coloured bar from being in the red for 12gb to into the yellow for 7.96gb overall output.


Maybe I am doing something really obviously wrong, so please let me know!

I wonder what the project does when it gets to 72% of the burn, because thats when it slows down.

Thanks in advance once again.

Rich

[richsimpson]

I tried to re-record the footage into the pc incase the original files had got corrupted somehow.

I recorded it this time through VS11 and used the setting for recording as DVD PAL 4:3

This recorded with a variable bitrate upto 7000kbs and also said Upper field first.

The render and output of the file with the same menus now only takes about 4 hours in total. It still makes a file for burning to dvd of 7.96GB (I think it was)

The footage came in as one big video file which was better than the standard recording software that would only get about an hour or so before creating a second file which was then unusable.

The footage for the project although the same length was about 10.5gb so not sure if thats whats made the render work or if its because its recorded in the mode it wants to export as.

Setting for share was dvd pal 4:3 and it also said variable bitrate upto 7000kbs.

The output file is a bit jumpy, not at all bad but worse than if I had made a disc through Tmpeg author. maybe a bad/poor codec I thought?

The movement seems a little bit blurry/jumpy.

This is the same if output as field only or upper fiel first. Not tried Lower Field First because that just woud make no sense!

Are there any other settings that I may have missed to make this better?