It had to happen...

Arnie · Post by **Arnie** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:40 pm

As my new computer is only available with Vista (no drivers for XP available), I had to jump... I have been using MSP7 and 8 for 5 years... I just went and bought Adobe Premiere (and After Effects and Encore)... Sad that I needed to do this, as MSP is very nearly an excellent product. Now for the learning curve on Premiere. It looks (not surprisingly) very similar to MSP on first looks.
I'll be interested in others' opinion... Are you going to Premiere, or another program, or sticking with MSP if you can get XP drivers for your new machine?
Cheers,
Arnie.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:17 pm

Sticking with MSP/XP.

I have two other options on my video computer, but I'm not using them mainstream.

jpal · Post by **jpal** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:06 pm

I've been through a similar process - I decided on Vegas (my head ruled my heart I think).

The learning curve is VERY steep, at least to get as productive and slick as in MSP. I guess this is no surprise really, because I was learning new ways of doing things years downstream in MSP. Fortunately, because I'm using XP64, I can continue to run MSP anyway (and also do this on a VM - had you considered that you could continue to run MSP on XP this way if you wanted, under Vista).

MSP has some very nice features which I miss in Vegas (some of these may be my ignorance of Vegas).

I guess the good news is that all the packages now do a pretty good job and the onus is on you to get a good comfortable and productive workflow going - just don't expect that to happen overnight!

Gorf · Post by **Gorf** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:13 am

jpal wrote:...MSP has some very nice features which I miss in Vegas...

Vista has some useless features which you won't miss in XP so stick with XP/MSP if the learning curve is a problem.

I know you said there's no chance your new machine will run XP, but that's a bit like buying an XBOX to run your Wii games - you know in advance it can't.

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:10 am

jpal wrote:
MSP has some very nice features which I miss in Vegas (some of these may be my ignorance of Vegas).

I've been running Vista 64 and Vegas for a number of years now. Originally I started with MSP, but once I got used to Vegas I came to learn that Vegas outdoes MSP by a long shot.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a book called Vegas pro 8 by Douglas Spotted Eagle (at amazon.com). It's well written, easy to understand and it will help you to understand just how much power you have at your fingertips.

And BTW... Vista is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Takes a bit of getting used to and some tweaks here and there but it's at least as good as XP.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:04 am

Every NLE has its advantages and its disadvantages, including Vegas and MSP. None of them do everything. I could enumerate many disadvantages of both, with respect to the other. So let's not get into internecine warfare. Let it rest that neither is perfect, but in different ways - and, yes, I do have both.

The same applies to OS. I did have Vista installed on one computer (not used for video) but I ditched it because I did not see any real advantage, other than eye candy, and I found many disadvantages. I have XP Pro on all 3 computers, including my dedicated video one. My regret is that modern apps do not run under MS-DOS or even Linux.

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:01 am

Devil wrote:
The same applies to OS. I did have Vista installed on one computer (not used for video) but I ditched it because I did not see any real advantage, other than eye candy, and I found many disadvantages. I have XP Pro on all 3 computers, including my dedicated video one. My regret is that modern apps do not run under MS-DOS or even Linux.

In the case of vista 32 I would agree. There is little sense (IMO) in upgrading there. But there are some great advantages to Vista Ultimate 64. I have been running that for almost a year as well and XP is now a thing of the past for me. Vista 64 is much more efficient and flexible.

jpal · Post by **jpal** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Thanks for the tips and thoughts.

I reckon all the modern OSs and NLEs are capable of doing a fantastic job these days if well configured and well-learnt!

I do see major benefits to using a 64-bit OS for content creation because of the memory management, ability to breach 4G, and run VMs well.

I did some research on Linux systems, and would have LOVED more content creation/NLE availability, this is my dream for the "next" OS upgrade. I don't think it will happen because although there are some good editors, render engines and compositors there, they are very technical and I think there are a lot of nasty licence/IPR downers that content people have for Linux which makes it all too difficult for a general purpose NLE.

John B

DLA · Post by **DLA** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:23 pm

neonbob wrote:
Devil wrote:
The same applies to OS. I did have Vista installed on one computer (not used for video) but I ditched it because I did not see any real advantage, other than eye candy, and I found many disadvantages. I have XP Pro on all 3 computers, including my dedicated video one. My regret is that modern apps do not run under MS-DOS or even Linux.
In the case of vista 32 I would agree. There is little sense (IMO) in upgrading there. But there are some great advantages to Vista Ultimate 64. I have been running that for almost a year as well and XP is now a thing of the past for me. Vista 64 is much more efficient and flexible.

I sincerely would like to be convinced. Can you provide a quick pros and cons list of 64 Ultimate compared to XP, apart from the 4G memory limit?

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:11 am

DLA wrote:
I sincerely would like to be convinced. Can you provide a quick pros and cons list of 64 Ultimate compared to XP, apart from the 4G memory limit?

- Vista's error logs are FAR more advanced
- Vista is FAR more secure than XP
- Starts up, shuts down much faster than XP
- ability to do Dynamic disks (kind of a software RAID that allows you to span a partition over several drives) great for uncompressed avi work.
- Dynamic disks can be undone just as easily as created
- Control panel is better divided so you can get to things like "Device Manager" much faster.
- Performance tools greatly enhanced
- Auto Play menu allows for better customization of program association.
- Windows Update is now located in Control Panel and is now independent from your browser.
- Incredibly fast search ability
- Allows you to use any flashdrive as additional system memory if needed
- Comes with Bit Locker drive encryption
- Parent controls that actually work
- COMPLETE built in back up/restore system
- Easier network setup

I can go on with this list but I think by now you get the idea.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:48 am

OK, that's the pros, how about the cons, as was also requested?

Please do not let this thread get too off-topic.

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:05 am

-The biggest con I can think of would be one of its pros... and that is security. It can be a bit of a double edge sword. It takes a while to get used to it, train it, and set it up the way you want. With full security on, it can slow you down something awful..... and it pretty much defaults that way when you install it.

-Security also disallows the use of unsigned drivers, so a few of those older third party freeware programs you have may not work.

-Vista is no doubt more of a memory hog than XP is

-The search feature although extremely fast, will slow your machine down a bit because of the constant indexing. I have now turned my indexing off (don't use search that much anyway... it's more for the data base people)

These are pretty much the only cons that I ran into when first using Vista. I'm sure there are more but I can't off hand think of them.

jpal · Post by **jpal** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:15 am

I guess the thing that concerned me most about Vista in respect of its use as a base for content creation is - not the UAC graunch (why not just install as admin or have the unix su concept??! - this is security for dummies), or the necessity for signed drivers in vista64 - a good thing in a way, but I like choice...

BUT the way in which Vita puts hooks into "protecting" premium content. I'm not advocating doing dodgy or illegal things, but I don't want an operating system making those decisions when I am creating premium content and under deadlines. I fear that in this process, some bit of media or other will not be to Vista's liking, and wrongly prevent me from creating or displaying the content.

It just seems too much hassle for the benefit, especially since I can run MSP perfectly well on XP64 with no mods. No multiple OS support, or learning yet another OS. Of course, other people will make other choices based on their circumstances, and I think basically we have good platforms (whether XP, Vista or Mac) available now - what fantastic facilities without costing an arm and a leg!

Now if Vegas comes good with the 64bit version this year, we'll both be very happy!

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:30 pm

jpal wrote: BUT the way in which Vita puts hooks into "protecting" premium content. I'm not advocating doing dodgy or illegal things, but I don't want an operating system making those decisions when I am creating premium content and under deadlines. I fear that in this process, some bit of media or other will not be to Vista's liking, and wrongly prevent me from creating or displaying the content.

This entire concept of Vista is VASTLY overblown and 2/3 of the rumors going around with Vista and DRM is just plain garbage. I've had vista for almost a year and have not run into ANY "protecting" problems at all. I've ripped cd's, dvd's and all the other wonderful stuff with no difficulties. And yes, programs like AnyDvd even work.

Once you get into Blu Ray and HDMI it then becomes a slightly different story, but then that's the technology behind Blu Ray more than anything else

troppo · Post by **troppo** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:53 am

I decided to avoid Vista and switched to Mac some time ago.

... I am very happy, and although I still have a PC (with MSP8 installed) in my office, I will continue to enjoy using the Mac for a long time to come.

Large chunk removed by Moderator (Devil) for infringement of forum rules.