Combining avi files and mpeg files in same project

gillyv · Post by **gillyv** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:01 am

Have a project in mind that will use different files from four cameras.
One camera is a Sony analogue Hi8, the other is a Canon IXUS Digital Camera (using the vieo function), the third is a Sony HDR HC5E and the fourth was a Sony analogue.
We have downloaded the files and they appear as avi files from the Canon. From the Sony Hi 8 they are a mixture of avi and wmv files.
From the HD they are m2t.
The final files from the other Sony come from a DVD and are BUP IFO and VOB files. We have used media decoder to see these in VS We do not have access to this camera as it was a friends, we only have the original tapes. I think it was a Sony and used the slightly wider tape than the Hi 8. We got a chap to put it on DVD for us so that we could see the files.
The idea is to combine a video of kids lives that spans across the use of these cameras.
Now how do I approach this project. I have looked in this forum for help and can't see what I'm looking for.
Do these file formats require different 'Fields First'? Could that be an issue?
Would you do it as different projects and then combine on a DVD?
cheers
G

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:24 am

Do these file formats require different 'Fields First'? Could that be an issue?

In a word, yes. The HD footage will definitely be Upper Field First (UFF). Re the Ixus, it could be anything -- you would need to right click on one of the Ixus files within Video Studio and copy all its Properties here. Most likely, but just guessing, it will be Motion JPEG (MJPEG) using the distribution/carrier .avi extension. As such, I think it would be Frame Based. The .vob files from the DVD will possibly be Lower Field First (LFF), depending on how the chap captured the original analogue video, but then again it could be UFF. Again you would need to right click and tell us the Properties. Ditto with the Hi8 captures using the .avi extension. How exactly were they captured? Unfortunately, those captured as .wmv are both difficult to edit and very slow to process...

You seem to be aware that it is a no-no to combine UFF and LFF video in any single project. You could of course quarantine them from each other, and have one project using LFF footage and the other using UFF. The frame based footage could go in either. And these separate projects could be processed and burned as separate video titles on the same DVD.

But in many respects, it would be far easier for you to convert each of the non-mpeg files to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 before you do anything else. VS should be able to do some of the conversions as long as it has access to the relevant codecs. But you could also download a freeware conversion program called SUPER which a number of us here use. You can find it at www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

gillyv · Post by **gillyv** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:54 am

Ken the properties are

Hi 8 Sony footage
(3 different tapes with these properties, this is just one tape)

File Format wmv
File size 59,067 KB
Duration 936520 sec
Data Rate 508 kbps
Video Windows Media File 24 bits 320x240 25000f/s
Audio wm audio 9.1 44. 100khz 16 bits Stereo
Aspect ratio 1.133 1.30
Is editable Yes

Hi 8 sony footage
File format: Microsoft avi files Open DML
25000 frames/sec
4,432,737 KB
Duration 1257.4sec
Data Rate3515.62kbps
Video: DV Video Encoder Type 1
24 bits 720x573 4:3
T Frames 32.435
Audio DV Audio Pal

Canon IXUS 500 (one thumbnail from VS of about 30)
File Format Microsoft avi files
file size 4.312KB
Frame Rate 15.000f/s
Duration 13,400 sec
data Rate 321.25kbps
Video: MJPEG Compressor
Attributes 24 Bits 320x240
Toatl Frames 201
Audio Compression PCM

The Stuff on DVD
File format PAL DVD
File Size2,113248KB
Duration 3660480 sec
Video Type MPEG 2 Video Upper Field First
Toatl Frames 91,512
Attribute 24 Bits 704 x 576 4:3
Frame rate 25000 frames/sec
Data rate Variable bitrate max 6400kbps
Audio Dolby Digital Audio

Did not write all the audio stuff do you need to know that too?
Cheers for now
G

gillyv · Post by **gillyv** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:58 am

convert each of the non-mpeg files to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 before you do anything else. VS should be able to do some of the conversions as long as it has access to the relevant codecs.

Not sure what access to relevant codecs means
Please clarify.
Ta
G

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:26 am

In the above sets of properties, the only one which will not natively be on your computer is the MJPEG one, though that should have been installed with the Ixus installation disc.

The fact that some of your Hi8 footage is in DV format is good news in the sense that is the best quality and easiest format to edit. But it is definitely Lower Field First. As such, while excellent quality, it may be the odd man out since I am pretty sure you can convert the .wma to UFF mpeg-2. The DV might thus be the only LFF you have to deal with.

The MJPEG encoder is capable of very good qualiity (it was the predecessor of DV!) AS I say, I am pretty sure it doesn't use UFF or LFF but is frame based. As such, it will work in either UFF or LFF projects. But I still think it is a good idea to convert it to mpeg-2 first if you intend to include it in a wider project. And it would probably be best to convert it to UFF since your other mpeg-2 stuff from the DVD .vobs use UFF.

gillyv · Post by **gillyv** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:42 am

Ken
Can you run through the process I use for converting the MJPEG files and wmv to mpegs.
thanks
G

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:25 pm

Using VS, both processes are identical but the end results may be different!

You have your video -- one type or the other -- in the timeline. If it is MJPEG, then the assumption is that you already have the MJPEG codec installed. Then you simply choose Share > Create Video File > DVD. Look at the properties used as default. If these are, for instance, LFF, then instead of using 'DVD' use Customise and then click on the Options button which will allow you change the properties, including to UFF if this is what your decide you want. Then you sit back and wait while the conversion is done.

Ditto with .wmv files. But just remember what I said about .wmv being a particularly finicky format. It was developed by Microsoft primarily as a presentation format to be used either in streaming video and/or on the web. Moreover, it is usually supposed to be an end-product, rather than a starting point -- in other words, it is difficult to convert to another format. It is also more manipulable in Microsoft editing programs, but the problem there is that Windows Movie Maker cannot produce mpeg-2 video, only either DV or wmv or the high quality SD version of it, .asf or indeed high definition .wmv. Many people using .wmv in VS find that conversions are both dreadfully slow -- 7 times or more real time -- and often fall over. So be warned.

In many ways, it would be far better to recapture all the .wmv footage into DV. But of course that is adding to your LFF video and may cause complications if that footage is meant to be interleaved with UFF footage.

gillyv · Post by **gillyv** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:09 am

thanks for all the info and help so far.
Just a few thoughts.
I think I will divide up the Projects into A and B. Project A will contain all the LFF footage, project B all the UFF stuff. The wmv. files that need to go into A will be re captured as avi and therefore LFF. This means all the footage of one child can go into this.
In Project B (other child) I need to use the DVD files which are VOB and are captured as UFF. The other files I need for this project are currently wmv. and therefore tricky. Don't want to convert these to avi as this would make them LFF. No good for project B
The footage that is only available to me in DVD VOB form were captured as MPEG using UFF. How about if I was to ask him to capture the files I need for Project B as UFF (and are currently wmv.s) as another DVD. VOB which would be UFF and Mpeg 2.
He has already done it once and successfully. He has a huge amount of high powered gear. As you said converting wmv to any other format can take yonks and may fall over part way through. that would probably happen if I tried to do that here.
It would mean I could have the files that I need to cross over between project A and B in two different forms avi for one and DVD VOB (UFF)
I know it means I am using second generation versions but I thought it might help get around this problem.
What do you think?