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Problems with quality when Creating Video File from edited

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:50 am
by gillyv
I have produced my first edited video with music, transitions, titles, and felt pretty chuffed with my effort. Now when I create a video file and select from the dropdown menu I have a problem. I have tried a number of the different ways but when viewing the created file after this stage there is some bad distortion when the camera pans, or zooms, or when someone is wearing a multicoloured shirt or things just appear to shimmer.
I am not sure which of these choices I should be using anyway. The best yet and one that retains the quality is the 'Optimize' choice but just as we think we have got it the process crashes and the programme shuts down.
The original files are as clear as you would expect Sony HD to be and have been imported from the camera fine. They are Mpegs. We want to burn a DVD that we can view on a standard TV.
We did burn a DVD in our first effort but the quality was really poor and reminded me more of our old Video 8 camera that was on it's last legs.
It is frustrating to have got this far and now can't get to view a good version. We just need some advice to get over the last two hurdles.
Thanks. G

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:10 am
by sjj1805
Check your field order.

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:49 am
by Ken Berry
What sort of HD were the original files? What model Sony?

To expand on Steve's comment, if you have HD mpeg files, they use Upper Field First. You must thus maintain Upper Field First throughout the project. If the project properties or the burn properties used Lower Field First instead, that is when you get the sort of effects you describe.

Did you first down-convert from the HD format to SD and DVD-compatible mpeg-2? If so, what properties did you use for that down-conversion? To maintain high quality, you would need to have used a bitrate of around 8000 kbps. You would also need to have ensured that if you converted the HD to full SD DVD compatibility, that no further conversion occurred in the burning process. So you would have needed to ensure that in the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen, that the box beside 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files' was ticked.

If you didn't first down-convert, but instead used either the HD files directly in the burning module, or included them in a project in the Editing module which was then used directly in the burning module, the down-conversion would have taken place as part of the burning process. It would also have used the properties set out in the top window of that same icon. Again, you would need to ensure those properties used Upper Field First, and a high quality bitrate.

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:43 am
by gillyv
The camera is a Sony HDR- HC5E HDV 1080i.

We downloaded the video from the camera using the capture function in Ulead - can't find any option to capture as "Upper Field First." Saved as Mpeg- 2 files format. i.e.
Video trye MPEG-2 Video
Attributes: 24 bits, 1440 x 1080 16:9
Frame rate: 25,000 frames/sec
data rate: 25000kbps

We've changed the saved project to "Upper Field First." Doesn't appear to have made any difference to the quality of the previewed click.
Weird thing is that when we preview individual clips in the saved Project, they look great - no distortion.
When we preview the exact same clips but in the "Project" view, the distortions we are having problems with are clearly apparent.
Is that normal?
What is "saving it as a Ulead Project" doing to cause this distortion that is not apparent in the original clips?
We'll try burning again to disk - ensuring that the "Do not convert compliant mpegs files" is ticked and that the "Upper Field First" option is chosen.
Beginning to wonder whether our choice of Ulead as an editing suite was a prudent one. Free version of Windows Movie Maker is very easy to use and without these types of issues - the only problem with that software was the limitation of output file formats which is why we purchased Ulead.

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:19 pm
by Black Lab
You have to make sure your burn properties are also set to Upper Field First. When you get to the burn window you will see a cog wheel icon in the bottom left. Open that for your burn properties.

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:16 pm
by Ken Berry
Saved as Mpeg- 2 files format. i.e.
Video trye MPEG-2 Video
Attributes: 24 bits, 1440 x 1080 16:9
Frame rate: 25,000 frames/sec
data rate: 25000kbps
I am assuming that you got the above properties by right-clicking on one of the downloaded files within Video Studio -- either with the file in the timeline or in the library window. If so, then it should definitely have also said 'Video Type: MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First' in the same line. I have a Canon HV20, which, like your Sony, shoots in the HDV format of high definition mpeg-2 to a mini-DV cassette. Anyway, once VS detects the camera, it will (normally) automatically capture using Upper Field First.

Can you also confirm exactly which version of Video Studio you are using, please?

Regarding the disparity in performance between playback in Clip mode and in Project mode, if you click my System button below, you will see that I have a Core 2 Quad 6600, which is pretty powerful. But I too have exactly the sam thing. Playing video in Clip mode is smooth, but in Project mode tends to be erratic, jumpy etc though the audio is smooth. But if you think about it, HDV is pretty demanding (though nowhere near as bad as AVCHD). And in Clip mode, all you are asking VS to do is play back one clip. No problems. But Project mode is asking it to play back a whole project, including all the edits, and do this on the fly. And it seems that any computer, including a Quad, is going to have a tough time doing that smoothly... In addition, the preview window in VS has never been one of its strong points, even with standard definition video... :cry:

"Saving as a Ulead Project" is not really doing anything to the video. A Video Studio Project files (.VSP) is only a small text file which tells Video Studio what video clips are included in a project, where they are located on the computer, what editing has been done to them, that sort of thing. In other words, .VSP files are NOT video files in themselves. Almost paradoxically, however, on the othe side, editing video files, while recorded in the .VSP file, do not physically change the original video files. They remain untouched unless you physically apply the changes/edits by choosing Clip > Save Trimmed Video. A new video clip is then saved, and appears in the library window, but the original is still there too, unchanged. The idea is then that you substitute the new file for the bit in the timeline you changed. But I should add that most people don't use this method...

To repeat and expand a little on what I said in my first post, if you want to convert your high definition to DVD-compatible mpeg-2, then with your video project in the timeline, you choose Share > Create Video File > and at this point, I choose Customise (although if your Project Properties are already set to standard definition, and use Upper Field First, you can choose 'DVD' instead of Customise). I make sure the conversion properties are Upper Field First, using a bitrate of of 8000 kbps and with a frame format of 720 x 576. The audio format in my case is normally mpeg layer 2 and I leave it at that, though you can also choose Dolby. Then I click OK and the conversion process starts. It will normally take quite some time. Then when the conversion is finished, I will play back the new mpeg-2 in a software DVD player (I use PowerDVD) to make sure it looks OK.

Note also that after you produce your new mpeg-2, you go to File > New Project. Don't worry about giving your new project a name. The objective is just to clear the timeline of your current project.

Once that is done, you select Share > Create Disc > DVD. The burning module will open. Use the Add Media button at the top to insert your new mpeg-2 in the burning timeline. Then go to the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen. There is a little box beside the words 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files'. Make sure that box is ticked (it usually is by default). That way, your already compliant mpeg file will not be re-encoded or importantly, the Field Order changed. Then build your menus and burn.

Believe me, it works with my Canon HV20 and there is no reason it should not with your Sony.

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:28 am
by gillyv
Many thanks for all your advice on this post. we have followed your clear and helpful instructions and have finally put our first DVD together with menus, video and an image slide show, all working fine. Thank you for your time and patience. We really apprciate this forum.
Cheers
GILLY :D :D

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:18 pm
by boxy
Mr. Berry: I, too, have a dual quad 6600 processor and an HV20. When I capture using VS and play back the raw file with Windows Media Player it looks great. But it appears to lose a pinch of quality (sharpness) when I create a file using "same as first clip" properties. Shouldn't it make an exact copy and therefore look identical to the original captured file?

I've been reading alot here, trying to absorb all of the knowledge you guys offer and I do appreciate it. Thank you.