Export HDV back to Canon HDV camera

[Ken Berry]

A few weeks ago, I suggested to someone wanting a way to see his high definition video filmed on a mini DV high def camera, that unless he had a Blu-Ray rated burner or player, the best option would be to export the edited HDV back to the mini DV cassette in his camera. Video Studio contains such a command (Share > HDV Recording). I stressed at the time that I had not yet tried it.

Now I want to know if any user out there with a Canon HDV camera (HV10, HV20, HV30 or other) and ONLY a Canon camera, has managed to do this. I have attempted it quite a number of times without any success using VS11.5+ on a Canon HV20 camera. On other forums, I have also learned that other Canon HDV users have experienced similar problems, though Sony HDV users report no problems. Hence my desire only to hear from Canon users.

With VS11.5+, you can do send HDV back to camera either with the project in the timeline, or using a finally rendered edited HDV file in the timeline. Either way, when you select 'HDV Recording', VS seems to process it (which takes some time, and I am not sure if it is re-rendering. However, you have to give the file a new name before processing starts. So I guess it is re-rendering.) You also have the camera connected via Firewire and switched to PLAY. Once the processing ends, a new little preview screen with VCR type buttons appears. And you are invited to click Next, then press the red REC button. The camera screen then shows activity and it momentarily begins to record. But then a message appears on the camera screen saying 'Check the HDV/DV input'.

I thought this might relate to the cable, but a new cable didn't change things. I thought it could relate to the camera setting (as with DV export back to tape) requiring AV > DV being enabled. But that made no difference either.

The project properties and the properties of the final edited file are exactly the same as the HDV originally captured from the camera using either VS or HDVSplit (HDV mpeg-2, 1440 x 1080i, 16:9, UFF, CBR of 25,000 kbps, mpeg layer 2 audio, 48,000 Hz, 16 bit 384 Kbps.) It is a PAL camera so 25 fps. And the camera does not film in anything higher than 1440 x 1080i.

I have tried it with Adobe Premiere Pro 3 with partial success using the latter's Export > Record to Tape. Premiere also processes the project, though only to a temp file which can, however, be saved. Then it begins recording to the camera. And the recording is successful. But at least a couple of times in an 18 minute project, the camera stops recording for a few seconds, though Premiere is still showing it is recording. The camera shows a blue screen during that time. Then it shows the video recording again. The end result is a high def recording on the DV cassette which plays back brilliantly via the cameras HDMI connection on my 115 cm high def TV .... EXCEPT for a couple of segments of blue screen last a few seconds each. The saved export file shows Properties identical to those listed above. It also plays back perfectly, with no drop outs.

Naturally, I am keen to know if any other CANON HDV camera user has found a work-around...

[tyamada]

Ken:

Even though I have a Sony HDR-HC1, I had to experiment with the camera settings to be able to send HDV back to the camera. There seems to be iLink settings that prevent a HDV signal from getting from the computer to the Camera.

I don't know if you still have VS10 loaded on your computer, however there is a patch for the Canon HV10. It is suppose to enable the camera to go both ways on VS10. You might give it a try if still installed.

I've had some problems with VS11.5+ that I don't have with VS10.

[Ken Berry]

Thanks. That setting you mention on the Canon camera is the one I mentioned: AV > DV (which is menu shorthand to also cover HDV). It just means that Firewire IN is allowed as well as Firewire OUT. And as I said, the export doesn't work whether it is enabled or not.

I have, since posting the above, also tried processing the Adobe export file I saved, which had mostly worked for export in Premiere. But it too had the same negative results in VS.

I will now have a look at my various computers to see if one of them still has VS10 on it. If not, I will load it on one of them... Thanks for the suggestion...

Ken

[tyamada]

Ken:

I just used VS10 to render a HDV file to send back to my camera. VS10 re-renders the whole file due to the fact that it's a program stream and the file that the camera needs must be in transport stream format which takes a long time. I suggest if you try to write back to your HV10 to use a small file to see if it works.

VS11 uses smart render to produce a Transport Stream file which is much faster than VS10.

Maybe in VS12 the write to camera function will work.

[Ken Berry]

Yes, I know it is supposed to be transport stream, and that is what VS11.5+ tells me it is doing. But as I say it does not work.

However, I can at least report some success with VS10+ as patched on XP SP2. The only downside was that the only computer I had with VS10 loaded was an old P4 1.8 GHz, which was slow slow slow! However, after taking something like 2 hrs 30 mins to convert a 12 minute HDV clip into exportable format, it actually started sending it to the camera. And kept it up for almost 6 minutes. However, then it started giving me a succession of drop-outs, more serious than what I was getting with Premiere. So I had to abort. Not sure if that was caused by the lack of computer resources on the old computer.

So I have now tried installing VS10+ on my Quad on which I already have VS11.5+. And added all the patches. However, curiously enough, despite adding SP1 and the HV10 patches, HDV Recording is not shown as an option in Share. It is not greyed out. It is just not there. Hmmm. So near and yet so far!!!

EDIT: I reapplied the patches and this time, they took! Will report back about export. At least it will be quicker on the Quad to get to the point of success or failure!!!

[Ken Berry]

I am very happy to report that that worked! So that's another thing VS10+ (even running on Vista) can do better than VS11/11.5+!! And I would agree that it is to be hoped that VS12 will correct this shortcoming in VS11...

I do, however, have one minor, though annoying, reservation. I started with my rendered, edited HDV file which VS11.5+ told me was in high definition transport stream using the .mpg extension. (The original captured files use the extension .m2t.) When I tried to open this in VS10 (both on my Quad and the older computer) I got a message saying the file was in non-editable format and did I want to have it pre-processed into editable format. I said OK. That process took a little while, and a file which started out with 2.32 GB became one with only 2.29 GB.

Anyway, that pre-processing appears to introduced some minor but irritating blips in the form of very quick jerky motion for about a second at various places in the file. Curiously enough, these were all associated with points in the video where there were transitions (mostly cross fades). However, it did not occur with all transitions, but with about two thirds of them. And the jerky motion was either before or after the actual transition (in one or two cases, both before AND after), not during the transition itself.

After selecting 'Share > HDV Recording', the further processing which occurred there made the blips even more obvious. I have very carefully examined the original HDV file on PowerDVD played full screen on my 22 inch monitor, and the blips are not there.

So, while I have achieved the major goal of actually exporting a full clip to my HV20, I have this about 5% niggle that I should do something to correct the remaining little fault. But I have already played the transferred file, including blips, back on my 115 cm LCD high def TV and the quality is wonderful...

I will report back if I resolve the issue of the blips...

[Ken Berry]

Victory!!!

I can now report I solved my remaining niggles about the export of HDV back to the mini DV tape. I opened the original project in VS11.5+, then saved it with a new name as a VS10 project. Then opened that file in VS10 and proceeded from first principles direct from the timeline to Share > HDV Recording. It created a new file of course, but burned perfectly to the mini DV cassette with not the slightest blip. And while I thought the previous effort was miraculously and wonderfully high definition, this time it is perceptibly better. Don't get me wrong -- it's not by much, but it IS noticeably higher definition.

Wonderful. At least I now have a guaranteed method of showing friends and family (who have high def TVs, at least, with HDMI connections) my edited high def videos without the immediate expense of buying a Blu-Ray burner or player. Mind you, they aren't far from my mind, I have to say... The friends and family, I mean, of course...

[tyamada]

Ken:

Just for laughs I experimented with MSP8, it has the capability of writing a transport stream file to my HC1. I took a file captured and rendered to a transport stream file in VS11.5 and inserted it into MSP8 and tried to write it back to my camera. It did write about 8 seconds of the file and stopped and I got a blue screen on the camera.

It seems that VS11.5 doesn't create the file properly.

I know when rendered in MSP8 and VS10 the files are written back to the camera properly. The only problem with VS10 is if the file doesn't write to the tape properly or you have a glitch you have to re-render the file again.

I can take the VS10 transport stream file and out put it with MSP8 to the camera. I don't know if you can use MSP8 with your Canon HV20, but you might give it a try.

[Ken Berry]

Thanks for the suggestion. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it, I guess -- referring to VS10+ of course, not VS11.5! I have now filled an entire mini DV cassette with edited high def videos AND watched them on my high def TV, and all turned out beautifully. So I am now pleased I have a foolproof, if time consuming, method of transferring back to my Canon.

As an interesting postscript, I should add that in installing VS10+ on my Vista Ultimate Quad, I installed SP1 and the JV10 patch, but not the Vista patch. It seems to work fine, at least as far as export of DV is concerned. It does, of course, send Vista into Basic mode while VS10 is running, but that just means that the nice Aero effect is switched off. But I can certainly live with that in order to get my high def back to the camera!!!

I *do* wonder, though, what the change was in VS11/11.5+ that caused export to work, yet it happily works in VS10+...

[tyamada]

Good to know you are happy with the work around to get your video back to the tape.

It seems VS11.5 has a more than a few bugs. I hope Corel has addressed all the problems and integrates all the fixes in VS12.