Setting Project Properties to match AVCHD editing

phidu · Post by **phidu** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:54 am

I'm new to VS, but I've read that it is best for the project properties to match the captured source clips. The properties on the AVCHD files imported from my camera show file format NTSC HDMV, and 1920 x 1080, vbr 16800kbps.

However, when I open project properties in VS11.5+, I can only choose between AVI and MPEG for edit file formats, and with MPEG and NTSC DVD the max frame size is 720 x 480.

How can I set project properties to work with AVCHD files, and 1920 x 1080?

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:31 am

Hi Phil

If you tick

File ¡V Preferences -- Show messages when inserting first video to timeline¡K¡K..

Start a new project
Add your video file to the timeline

You should receive an info window to change the project settings.
Select ¡¥Details¡¦
View the right hand panel for the video properties.
Press ¡¥Yes¡¦ to match the project properties.

(works for the first video on a new project)

You can also change the project properties by File ¡V Project Properties¡Xedit¡Xcompression¡Xfor HD select mpeg2

Hope this Helps

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat May 17, 2008 1:33 pm

Trevor, I am not sure that message works with high def video -- though, from experience, I would sure like to be proven wrong!!!

westlight · Post by **westlight** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:07 pm

I've run into this when I first started editing AVCHD files from my Canon HG10. The"Show message when inserting video into timeline" does not show up when inserting a HD video into the timeline, even with the box ticked in General Preferences.

When starting a new project I always have to go into the "Project Preferences" tab click on Edit>Compression>"Media Type" and change that to MPEG2. DO THIS STEP FIRST Next I adjust the Quality to 100%, change video Date Rate to 16,000 var., adjust the audio.

Next, I go back to the "General" tab and change my "Frame Size" to 1440x1080. You will notice in the drop down list you now will have many more options. Double check your Frame Type to make sure it matches your original video. It seems to always want to default to "Lower Field First" on my setup.

It works for me. Hope this helps.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:47 pm

Hi Ken

I used VS 10 to create a video file using the default template (Pal Mpeg2 HD)
The resultant file was inserted to the timeline and triggered the ¡¥match project properties¡¦

Realising that VS did not use the full frame size but 1440 x 1080 I used Make Movie Manager to create a template to:-

MPEG files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Upper Field First
(MPEG-2), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 16800 kbps)
Audio data rate: 384 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

As near to the OP¡¦s settings as I could

I was still able to change the project properties using the message window.

I do not have HD but would assume it would work.
If not then there must be a difference with the cameras video properties compared to Video Studios template. Maybe the audio properties?????

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:14 pm

Thanks for experimenting, Trevor. But I am afraid that I have to agree with Westlight. I am not using an AVCHD camera, but a HDV one (Canon HV-20) which films to mini DV in high def mpeg-2 format. The downloaded files have properties identical to the ones you used, apart from a bitrate of 25,000 kbps. I always have the Message box ticked in VS Preferences.

I have just tried it again using both a file newly downloaded from the camera via Firewire AND also a final HDV mpeg-2 produced by VS11.5+ from a HDV project. In both cases, when I drag the file into the timeline in a new project, I do *not* get a message... Then I have to go through the contortions described by Westlight. However, I don't worry too much about doing that as I am careful in setting the output properties in Share > Create Video File to Custom, so that they match the original HDV properties.

westlight · Post by **westlight** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:31 pm

Someone had suggested this approach to the problem when I first posted my question regarding this a few months back. I'm only using one camera so if you are using different setups this probably will not work.

Create a new project with nothing in the timeline. Set your "project preferences" as you would like, then save this empty project as "template.vsp. When you start a new project just open this "template", then do a Save AS with a new name and start working.

It would be nice if you could set a default project preference but apparently this is not possible.

phidu · Post by **phidu** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:20 am

Thanks everyone. I didn't get the message either, when inserting the first clip into the timeline. So I followed the process from westlight, and saved a template project with the new settings, to use in the future.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri May 23, 2008 2:49 am

I have just used it too, so thanks Westlight. I was wanting to set a constant bitrate for my AVCHD output, whereas VS11.5+'s template uses variable, and with no option to change it. So this is useful.

FWIW, I am now making X-Disc hybrid DVDs, burning AVCHD content in that format, to play on a PlayStation 3 I just bought yesterday! I have already burned one successfully using the VS template (VBR max. 15000) but this means the average is a good deal lower). And I have to say, I could pretty easily detect a quality difference between the same clips rendered as high def mpeg-2 and recorded back to tape and played via HDMI on my high def 1920 x 1080p TV, and this X-Disc. The latter was still clearly high def, and (much) better than an SD version, but noticeably inferior to the HDV tape version.

Hence my effort to increase the quality if only by a little, by using a CBR.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:43 am

phidu -- I just had a "duh" moment when I realised that when setting up my Template file project properties, I could not find a way to use the H.264 codec which is what makes it AVCHD. Did you find a way of doing that?

phidu · Post by **phidu** » Sat May 24, 2008 1:48 am

Ken, no I've only gotten as far as westlight's suggestion of using MPEG-2 and modifying properties to be as close as possible. With VS still crashing on me regularly it has been frustrating to use.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat May 24, 2008 2:39 am

Ah well, I am still searching too... The only way I have found to actually produce AVCHD using my own properties (CBR and higher bitrate around 17000 kbps) has been to open the burning module (Share > Create Disc > AVCHD) and insert my edited rendered files in HDV/mpeg-2 format. Since they aren't in AVCHD format, they have to be rendered as part of the burning process. And you can set the properties to be used in the second icon in the bottom left of the burning screen.

I did this last night, with mixed results, using 2 HDV clips of 12 and 18 minutes respectively. One was a program stream (PS) rendering and the other was Transport Stream (TS) which is what is used to export the HDV back to the HDV camera. After burning to a hybrid DVD, the quality of the video itself in both clips was excellent -- almost (though not totally) indistinguishable from the original HDV, and certainly more than good enough to be acceptable to me.

However, interestingly, the PS clip rendered to AVCHD with blips all before or after transitions in an already rendered video! I cannot think why this should be, but they are there and all too obvious for me to accept this as successful output. The TS clip on the other hand rendered perfectly in playback, with no blips at all and in the excellent quality mentioned above. Totally acceptable.

So today's task for me is, first, to search for a program which allow me to convert my HDV files first to AVCHD using my own settings. If it allows burning to DVD, then well and good. If not, I would burn them to DVD using VS11.5+ which certainly works. Failing such a program, however, I will this time produce a TS version of the first clip and use that with the other... and wait the more than 4 hours it takes to convert the 30 minutes of video, even on my Quad!

I have two other editing programs -- the trial version of Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8 Platinum and Adobe Premiers Pro 3, and neither will produce AVCHD files as far as I can see.

As for VS crashing, I seem to be lucky on that front. Yesterday, I had it doing several very long processes, including the more than 4 hours rendering mentioned above, with not one crash. The one thing I have learned over the years, though, is to be very patient in waiting for the program to react when I press a button. And this is especially true of high definition video even on a Quad or a Core 2 Duo. It takes sometimes up to 20 or 30 seconds for a high def clip actually to show up in the library pane or insert in the timeline once I have selected it. And if, as many will do, thinking that you didn't actually activate the button, you press it multiple times then VS will almost inevitably freeze and/or crash. So just bear that in mind and see if it makes any difference on the crash front!

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat May 24, 2008 4:03 am

I am doing this as a separate post, rather than merely editing the previous one, for reasons which I hope will become obvious.

First, I understand Nero 8 can convert HDV to AVCHD. I have it, but cannot for the life of me work out where the conversion is done!

But in the meantime, I have made an interesting discovery. It may already be well known to PS3 users who use their PS3 for playing back video, but it was certainly new to me. I was trying to update the software on my brand new PS3, and the PS3 Quick Start manual said you merely had to put the update on a USB stick and the PS3 would recognise it. But it wouldn't. However, when I found a relevant entry in the PS3 FAQs, it said you had to put a folder (called PS3) on your USB stick, and in that create another folder called UPDATE. It was stressed that PS3 directories use upper case and the PS3 only recognised this. And of course it worked and my PS3 is now up to date.

However, I had some edited HDV clips on the same USB stick (a 16 GB Corsair) in a folder I had called, logically enough, Video, which of course PS3 could not see. (I was using it to transfer the files from my Quad, which cannot create an AVCHD disc to my laptop, which can.) So I wondered if the same rule about upper case might apply. I changed the folder to VIDEO and hey presto! PS3 detected it immediately, listed the 3 files and allowed me to play them in their original HDV/mpeg-2 format as produced by VS11.5+! And as good as the original played back direct from the camera via HDMI to my high def TV. Brilliant! And in other words, there is no pressing need to convert to AVCHD apart from the question of a nice menu. But PS3 provides a rudimentary one anyway...

As I say, this might already be well known to more experienced PS3 users than me. But I can already think of several variations on the theme. I could, for instance, simply burn a HDV as a data file to a VIDEO folder on a data DVD. The downside is that HDV are a good deal larger than their AVCHD equivalent. One of the files on my USB stick, for instance, is 19 minutes long yet is 3.69 GB in size. In other words, I would be limited to not much more than 20 minutes per single layer DVD using the 30,000 kbps bitrate that particular HDV file uses.

Another possibility would be to use a 500 GB external USB hard disc I bought 6 months ago but have never used (!!

) for storing my HDV edited clips, connect that to the PS3 and play them from there... Don't know if it will work, but I can't think of any logical reason why it should not...

I am also wondering whether stand-alone Blu-Ray players have USB jacks which might be able to accept similar clips...

(EDIT: it just so happened that this particular external hard disk, because I had not used it, was still formatted with its original FAT32 system intact. I put the VIDEO folder on it and a couple of clips, which copied fine. PS3 recognised the drive and played the files beautifully. BUT -- and its a big 'but' -- PS3 can only see FAT32 and not NTFS. And FAT32 of course won't allow files over 4 GB in size. Many HDV files, and even AVCHD files, for that matter, will be over that. I already have one which is just 25 minutes long, yet is 4.32 GB and so won't copy to the hard disk. So I would have to reduce the file size by lowering the bitrate which in turn will lower the quality. Mind you, I certainly don't need a bitrate of 30,000 kbps. Perhaps the apparent VS default of 25,000 kbps for HDV may be better.)

lb44 · Post by **lb44** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:26 pm

With reference to "Westlight's" and "Phil's" comments re matching project properties to an inserted AVCHD clip by ticking 'show messages for first clip' in preferences. This does not bring up a window allowing matching of properties for 1920x1080 AVCHD files. Also by changing the setting manually in the method described by "Westlight" you cannot set sound to 5.1 surround with a 1920x1080 AVCHD clip. It keeps defaulting back to 720x576. As mentioned in previous topics VS11.5 is still failing ramdomly viewing Panasonic SD9 1920x1080 5.1 clips in project mode or at other stages of editing. The problem is less prevelent when matching the project properties as near as possile to the clip. Maybe as VS cant match the sound ths is part of the problem. Are there any Panasonic HD users out there not having a problem.
Les