Smart Trim Files

[zac51]

Hello,

I (still) use a Canopus DVStorm2 card with StormEdit in order to take advantage of some of the Real Time filter needed for certain projects.

But I also love and use MSP and have been a user since version MSP5.

Finding a solution to my current problem is a long shot but I thought I would ask.

For a project I am doing currently, I capture my ANALOG video footage from TRV900 using my Canopus StormBay which converts it back to digital. I have to capture with analog because the video has to have the Time Stamp on it and it only shows up on the Analog signal. That's NOT the problem.

I then bring those files into MSP* on a timeline and use Scene Detect. Once the scenes are detected, I use Smart Trim to export the clips.

However, when I use those Smart Trimmed clips in StormEdit, it cause it to be unstable. It will crash randomly and I must do a hard reboot to get back into my project. My DVStorm has been rock solid since the day I got it. I thought maybe the card was going bad, but I have done other projects since this first happened, using digital AND analog footage captured the same way with no issues. LONG projects; 3 to 3 hour timelines. No problems, UNTIL i introduce Smart Trimmed clips.

Does Ulead do something to the file header or wrapper? It is definately the Smart Trim clips. I have tested many scenerios and those clips appear to be the trouble makers. But the feature is an invaluable time saver.

Any ideas? Any solutions?

Thank you.

chris

[Devil]

Let me reply with asking YOU a question. How can you expect us to give you an answer when you tell us nothing useful? I don't mean to be rude, but sometimes I get fed up asking people to read the READ THIS BEFORE POSTING ... thread (that nobody does, of course! ) Sorry for the rant.

What are the MSP settings and the format of your files you are inputting and outputting> What version is MSP*? What are the OS/hardware data you haven't put in your profile.

PS Welcome to the forum!

[zac51]

Ouch! Thank you for that!

Okay. My fault. Profile has been updates.

Now let me use the Read this before PostingTemplate to clarify:

Describe your problem: More detail available in my first post. The short of it is, when I use avi clips in StormEdit that were generated in MSP8 using Smart Trim, it causing random crashing of my StormEdit session.

Properties of your source files (format, file size, where did you get it?): Analog capture from TRV900 via StormBay which encodes with the CanopusDV codec; Scene Detect Splits in MSP8 then exported using Smart Trim in MSP8. Other footage is not treated in MSP8; i.e. it is only edited in StormEdit. No problems in StormEdit until Smart Trim clips are introduced. Not immediate. Random. Can edit for hours or minutes and then there will be a crash. In six years it has ONLY crashed when Smart Trim clips are used.

What devices are involved and their mode of connection?: Sony TRV900 Camcorder, Analog out to StormBay Analog Capture, computer, mouse, keyboard, external monitor fed via patch cables from StormBay

Project Properties (important):
NTSC Drop Frames (29.97 fps)
Video Tracks 7
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720x480, 4:3, 29.97fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder - Type 1
DV Audio NTSC 48,000 khz 16bit stereo

Output format (file, DVD, VCD, SVCD): AVI

PAL or NTSC: NTSC

Error Codes (if any): Microsoft "We're sorry about the inconvenience, but something bad happened..."

Product Version: e.g. VS10 or VS11+ Ulead MSP8.10.0039.0

How's that?

Thank you for your help.

Kindest Regards,

chris

[Devil]

OK, I've had a look-see and found nothing that explains your problem. However, a little bell is tinkling in the back of my mind; I have a vague memory that some of the Canopus software prefers DV type 2, rather than type 1. May be worth a try???? (no guarantee)

[zac51]

When I capture the video, it is encoded with Canopus DV, not DV Type 1 or 2. And my understanding is that when the Smart Trim writes out the split scenes, it is NOT transcoding the clips. In fact, if it did, they would not play in StormEdit. StormEdit wil ONLY play clips encoded with the CanopusDV codec. But perhaps I should set the Project Settings to Canopus DV instead of Type 1 OR 2. Maybe it doesn't transcode, but inserts some kind of tiny incorrect info into the file when it writes it out that *says* it is Type 1 when it isn't. It seems more likely that it inserts some proprietary code that only Ulead or MSP cares about, but that StormEdit chokes on.

I can run an experiment this week where I split some footage with the Project Setting set to Canopus DV and Type 2 and see if either has different results. I have no other leads at this point, so it is worth a try.

Thank you for brainstorming with me. I'm still open to other ideas though.

-chris

[Ron P.]

I'm not 100% sure on this, as the conversation we had took place several months ago. But your mentioning of Canopus not encoding Type-1 or 2, but Canopus DV rang a bell with me..

A friend of mine uses Canopus, Edius products. He stated that Canopus uses some sort of proprietary encoding, which is not very friendly with other NLEs. He uses Adobe NLEs also, and stated that he has no problems. I would gather that the Canopus possibly uses more of a Type-2 since Adobe's Premiere Pro uses that type of DV.

Just a thought..

[Devil]

Yet I have a Canopus ADVC which produces a DV stream which MSP (and everything else) is very happy with. Of course, it does not produce an AVI file, but MSP "captures" it perfectly to either DV1 or DV2.

[zac51]

When I bring my captured clip into MSP8 and place it on the timeline, and do a right-click>properties, it does not say Type 1 or 2, it says CanopusDV. And if it bring a Smart Trimmed clip into MSP8 and place it on the timeline, and do a right-click>properties, it does not say Type 1 or 2, it says CanopusDV. So i do not think Ulead is converting the format to Type 1 or 2. It is simple breaking it into pieces (smart trim). Again, i suspect when it does this it may be introducing some data, some bit of info, that StormEdit is not expecting in the file. This is a guess at this point.

What makes an AVI Type 1 or 2? Why don't my clips say Type 1 or 2?

Thank you for your help.

-chris

[Devil]

I have no idea what your Canopus software produces or expects. For me, a DV AVI file is clearly one of two types (for a given standard and audio rate). Type 1 has the audio interleaved into the video blocks. Type 2 has separate audio blocks, independent of the video. The AVI wrapper has a preamble and, if I remember correctly, the first 4 characters identify the type of file. These may change according to the codec used. You could TRY finding out what they are in both file types and changing them in a binary editor. What follows the preamble should be the same, no matter what. That having been said, each block of DV data does have a header with variables, so it might not be as simple as that, but I have heard that some makers "protect" their files to make it difficult to use them in other applications.