Editing from DVD camcorder

CycleWriter · Post by **CycleWriter** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:51 pm

Is anyone using a DVD camcorder for their videos? I'm contemplating one of these units and am concerned about how easy it is to edit the output from one of these cameras. Do you have to finalize each disc in the camera before it can be read by a computer? I mostly want to do away with the capturing time from my mini-DV camera. I have a big project upcoming and having to capture a dozen or more tapes in real time is a pain as is the cost of tape. Thanks.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:37 pm

The cost of the tape is largely irrelevant, I would have thought. I buy my new DV tapes from computer fairs here in Australia for about $1.25 each. I am wondering what you must buy your mini DVDs for if they are cheaper than that...

As for finalising, that depends on the mini DVD camera -- some do, some don't and you need to check the manual for each camera as to what is required. But mostly you do, and with some cameras, this can take quite some time, I believe...

And yes, editing mpeg can be difficult. For many people it can be easy, I admit, but mpeg is not a format which is natively meant for editing. If you have read this Board for some time, you will see that all sorts of people, under all sorts of different conditions, have a wide variety of problems when editing mpegs. Some don't. But there is no hard and fast rule.

As for the time taken to capture DV, yes, hard luck, it is real time so one hour of DV takes one hour to download. But whoever said video editing was meant to be either easy or fast...? If you are serious about video editing, then the download time should be the least of your considerations. Have several cups of coffee, read a book... And I am not meaning to sound flip about this. Downloading and editing DV is the best and most secure way of producing a good end result. As it is, if you change to a mini DVD camera, you may or may not produce a decent product using mpeg-2. With DV, 99% of the time you *will* produce a good product...

CycleWriter · Post by **CycleWriter** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:48 pm

Ken, thanks for your comments. I can get mini-DVDs for under 75 cents each here, so there is a cost benefit not to mention the storage of DVDs is much less volatile than tapes. That is another concern I've had with tapes. Invariably, a tape I have recorded will suddenly go bad for no reason. I'll put it into the machine and get a tape error even though there appears to be absolutely nothing wrong with it. Capture time is also significant when you are charging someone for a finished product, as I am. Even if I can walk away and do other things, the computer is still tied up during tansfer and that means I cease to make money.

I hear what you're saying about editing MPEGS. If you look at my recent posts I ran into this problem just last week. Something caused VS to hiccup when I tried to re-edit footage taken from a finished DVD. I am suspecting it was the MPEG2 clips that caused the problem.

I really need the highest quality output, so that is the main consideration. I trust your expertise and will consider staying with tape. I have been researching cameras for days and my head is about to explode, but at least now I can focus (no pun) on a smaller group of units. Thanks.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:03 am

Sorry, but I have been travelling for the past month overseas, and still won't be back home for another 2 weeks. So my ability to access the Board and focus on individual posts has been somewhat sporadic. So I have probably missed the continuity of your threads.

I certainly hadn't known that mini DVDs had so much dived in price. Moreover, having 6 decent computers at home means that I lose the perspective of people who are working with only one, and I mean working. Mind you, if you are making money from video editing or associated activities, I am not sure why you only seem to be working with one computer. Hence my comments about speed being largely irrelevant if end quality is the desired end product.

If you indeed have been experiencing problems with editing your mini DVDs on your current equipment yet are reliant on it for producing money, then I would have though the equation clear -- either change camera, or change computer, or get more of both!!! (I have a high def Canon HV20, a standard def Canon MV930i and a Sony DCR-TRV480 digital 8 -- all of which, as you will note, use tape... Not a moment's problem, even if I have to wait to download the video from each!!!)

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:28 am

Going on from what Ken has suggested - which would be the same reply I would have suggested - for commercial use you need more than one computer - even if only to keep the business going should one develop a fault - which computers unfortunately will do over a period of time.

You can get away with one powerful computer and a few less powerful ones but powerful enough for you to hook up your recording equipment.
If you also get an external USB drive then you can transfer files very quickly between computers - this is much faster than doing so over an intranet.

I recently purchased a 1TB external USB drive and I was suprised at how reliable it has been and how quickly I can shift several gigabytes from a computer to the drive and then from the drive to another computer. If you are considering upgrading to a new computer then this also gives tht old computer a new lease of life. I have 4 computers in my house.

CycleWriter · Post by **CycleWriter** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:47 am

I guess I should have been more specific. I have 2 computers, a desktop at home that I edit on and laptop I use in the field for downloading video and photos. Both have VS on them. I can edit on the laptop, if I have to, but I prefer to edit at home. From all I have read today quality is still best on mini-DV, and editing is far less problematical as well. Being that HD is not an option at this time due to compatibility issues with my client and others, mini-DV it is for awhile. Also, although I am making money doing this, it is not my primary work. I have one very good client that gives me big jobs, but I am not actually depending on this income for my livelihood. I am a pro magazine photog just looking to expand my abilities and fill some down time between shoots (and surgeries). Recent physical problems have me concerned that field work as a photog may not be viable in the future so finding something else I can do that is less strenuous has great appeal. If I ever get to the point where I depend on this income and have multiple clients depending on me, I will certainly invest in more/better equipment. Thanks.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:07 am

OK -- and good luck with your health!!!

DLA · Post by **DLA** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:48 am

can get mini-DVDs for under 75 cents each here, so there is a cost benefit not to mention the storage of DVDs is much less volatile than tapes.

Being a user of a DVD camera myself, I would not suggest to use 75 cents mini-DVD. When I started using my camera, I used good quality and expensive mini-DVD-RW. I then switched to 75 cents mini-DVD-R for the same reason that you state. I was wrong. Those DVDs are so cheap than I had to fight with them for weeks following a trip because my computer wouldn't be able to capture the videos out of it. Bad sectors.

I then returned to expensive mini-DVD-RW (and good quality) and never had any issues again. I use external USB HDD for backup of my mini-DVDs, two of them so I have two copies before I erase the mini-DVD. At 150$ for 500GB, you can fit a lot of mini-DVDs. On top of that, it makes very quick access to the full library of footage when editing.

75 cents mini-DVD = big problems.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:13 pm

I agree with the others that mini-DV is the best way to go. In 12 years of mini-DV experience, I have never had a tape go bad on me and I've used many well-known brands (not strictly true - I had one chewed by a puppy!!!!) and my 12-y.o. ones still play well. I've been into DVD-Rs for 8 or 9 years and I've had several that became unplayable with normal storage in jewel boxes (no physical damage). The photopolymer layer is not always stable. Others from the same epoch are OK, under identical conditions.

I would never, ever, consider a) any MPEG cam, b) any DVD cam or c) any HDD cam (the hard use of a cam including movements while the disc is running does not seem a good idea to me).

2Dogs · Post by **2Dogs** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:59 pm

sjj1805 wrote:I recently purchased a 1TB external USB drive and I was suprised at how reliable it has been and how quickly I can shift several gigabytes from a computer to the drive and then from the drive to another computer. If you are considering upgrading to a new computer then this also gives tht old computer a new lease of life. I have 4 computers in my house.

Although few pc's have eSATA ports yet, you can buy an eSATA hard drive enclosure, which comes with an eSATA adaptor for the pc, for only a little more than the cost of a regular USB enclosure. The resulting external hard drive will then be almost indistinguishable from your internal drives as far as transfer speeds are concerned - and much faster than any USB or or Firewire connected drive.

eSATA/USB Enclosure

It might even be fast enough to win Devil's approval for video capture purposes!

To connect to your other pc's, you can use the slower USB connection.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:03 pm

OK, using an internal SATA port externally seems OK except that the housing does not include ventilation, but why not put it into the computer, anyway? I would MOST CERTAINLY not recommend video capture/editing to a SATA drive via a USB port.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:09 am

Thanks for the info about eSATA drives - I hadn't heard of those before.
I would guess that more and more external storage systems will spring up in the future as technology evolves. Who would have thought of 1TB drives a couple of years ago and now it is possible to purchase external hard drive towers making several terabytes of drive space available.