TIFFs created from Nikon Picture Project not loadable

kappbr · Post by **kappbr** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:25 pm

Maybe this would be a question for Nikon, but does anyone have any knowledge on this.

My digitial camera is the Nikon D-80. Nikon's RAW format is their own, called NEF. Their program that came with the camera, PictureProject, can convert the NEF files to jpg or tiff.

When I try to load such a .tif created by PictureProject, in VideoStudeo 11 I get a pop-up:

"These files cannot be added to this project.
These files may be of unknown file format, the computer does not have enough memory, or the file is copyright protected."

However, if I load into Paint Shop Pro X, a .jpg file which originated from my Nilon camera, and save it as a .tif, that .tif file will load into VideoStudeo ok.

(side thing: Paint Shop Pro X lists .NEF as a file type, but when I try to load the .NEF file in it I get "The specified file cannot be identified as a supported file type.)

Brian

CycleWriter · Post by **CycleWriter** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:07 pm

More than likely your native tiff files are just too big. Tiff is an uncompressed format and a tiff made from a raw original would likely be huge. Saving it to jpg and then to tiff reduces the file size dramatically making it small enough for VS to use it. Why don't you just use the jpgs? There is nothing to be gained from using tiff since video compression will reduce the quality to that of a jpg. Using smaller compressed jpg files will probably have less impact on your editing since they won't have to be reconverted as much when rendering. There really is no benefit to using tiff-formatted files in VS.

kappbr · Post by **kappbr** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:01 am

CycleWriter,

Thanks for the reply. The size may be the issue. As to why I am trying .tiffs. I bought VS to create still image slide shows with music, on DVD. I am frustrated because so far I have a degradation of image quality. As soon as I hit play, in design mode, the image, and subsequent images, are blurry.

I have searched for and found some threads here on the same issue. I have them book marked but not all read yet. So far a couple settings suggested have not solved it.

I know jpgs are lossy when created and subequently saved. Someone suggested to not use jpgs. The implication being that for some reason VS cannot render jpgs clearly, not in usual the sense that they are lossy (unless the writer did not understand...), but for some other reason.

Thus far I am quite frustrated and if I can't work this out will be uninstalling and getting a refund. Windows Movie maker does a fine job as to keeping image clarity but of course does not save to DVD format, and have all the other extras.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:43 am

The reason why your images come out blurry is the fact that VS needs to resize them for the TV frame size. How many mega pixels does your camera have? It doesn't really matter here but for display on a TV set from a DVD a 1 MP camera would give you a much better image.

Sounds strange, doesn't it? I would resize the images closer to the TV frame size in the correct aspect ratio and save as bmp. I do that all the time with my Canon EOS 350 D (8MP) images and they look great. An original image will be too blurry for my taste.

CycleWriter · Post by **CycleWriter** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:11 am

As Heinz and I pointed out, the quality issue is likely more from file size than from format. If you are insistent on using TIFF files then at least size them down. An 8mp camera generates a TIFF file of roughly 24-32mb. That's just too much info for VS to parse without introducing all kinds of problems. It simply doesn't need all that info. I suspect the Movie Maker program probably does a better job at resizing the photo before actually importing it into your video, but this isn't a limitation of VS. Rather, VS assumes you know how to resize a photo for video usage BEFORE importing it and doesn't waste time trying to second guess you. The result, as you've seen, is more info is present than is needed and picture quality suffers. Try resizing your native TIFFs to something like 1024X768 and see if that doesn't improve your situation.

Clevo · Post by **Clevo** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:16 am

I had no problems using jpegs for DVD shows. Stills rendered very authentically.

Try high quality jpegs when saving them and reduce the image size to between 900-1200 pixels wide (depending on how much pan and zoom you intend (more pixels for more zoom)

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:30 am

MovieMaker, depending on the type of file you create, doesn't have to be as strict concerning frame size and frame rate as VS does for DVD. It most likely created a different file than DVD compliant mpeg2.

It is a common misconception though that people think the have to feed the highest possible resolution into a program to get the best possible results on TV. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If the OP only sat back for a moment and contemplated the amount of information contained in one frame of 48 bit tiff and the computing power needed to display that information, if it were possible, in 25 frames/50 fields per second, I'm sure the question would never have been asked.

To top it all off, the source file was a RAW image. That surely comes in handy if you want full control over all possible shades of color while creating an image for a large print. It's totally wasted if that image is to be displayed on a TV. In all fairness though, the OP is not to blame for that but the sales hype of unscrupulous camera sales people.

The amount of money wasted by unsuspecting camera buyers for imaging capabilities of their cameras which they will never ever use is horrifying. I know of people who are proud owners of a 10 MP camera but will never ever print larger than a standard photo size 4 x 6 or 5 x 8 inch and, most of the time only look at the images on a TV screen.

CycleWriter · Post by **CycleWriter** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:01 am

heinz-oz wrote: The amount of money wasted by unsuspecting camera buyers for imaging capabilities of their cameras which they will never ever use is horrifying. I know of people who are proud owners of a 10 MP camera but will never ever print larger than a standard photo size 4 x 6 or 5 x 8 inch and, most of the time only look at the images on a TV screen.

Don't I know it.

I'm a pro magazine photog, video is a hobby I'm just starting to make some money at.

I can't tell you how many of my friends have bought DSLRs only to find themselves overwhelmed at their complexity. Not to mention their lack of computer skills. When I tell them a good P&S was a better choice, especially since they have algorithms that reduce the need for post-processing, they look at me like I have two heads. I no longer take their phone calls begging for help.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:04 am

Ditto

kappbr · Post by **kappbr** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:49 pm

All,

This is all great help, thanks. I don't care if the source for the VS project is tiff or not. Thinking that way was just an attempt to solve the problem. Your info on that I could actually be feeding it too much image info may be the solution (I don't recall what I sized the images to in my attempts thus far.) Anyway I'll work at it more. Not sure if I will post back here today or later; don't get as much time at the picture/photo hobby during the work week.

Brian

kappbr · Post by **kappbr** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:00 am

Well, now I am coming back negative. I won't say the problem can't be with this user, but I am just not getting it to work; am not getting a slide show of still images to not be very degraded in quality.

I am not even to the point of burning on DVD and watching on a TV. I am just creating a .wmv file. Playing it back in Windows Media Player or whatever, the same blurriness that comes in at preview time in design mode, is there in the final cut.

I have tried various settings of what I understand to be the relevant items in Preferences, to no avail.

I am not asking for more help, I don't think there is any, I just somehow am not making it happen. So this is just to give sort of what may be a final report.

I have downloaded and will now try Movie Factory Plus. I don't know yet if you can add music with it.

But thanks for trying to help me. (I work a certain type of tech support in my job so I know there is still room for this to be a user problem!)

CycleWriter · Post by **CycleWriter** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:24 am

kappbr wrote:Well, now I am coming back negative. I won't say the problem can't be with this user, but I am just not getting it to work; am not getting a slide show of still images to not be very degraded in quality.

I am not even to the point of burning on DVD and watching on a TV. I am just creating a .wmv file. Playing it back in Windows Media Player or whatever, the same blurriness that comes in at preview time in design mode, is there in the final cut.

I have tried various settings of what I understand to be the relevant items in Preferences, to no avail.

I am not asking for more help, I don't think there is any, I just somehow am not making it happen. So this is just to give sort of what may be a final report.

I have downloaded and will now try Movie Factory Plus. I don't know yet if you can add music with it.

But thanks for trying to help me. (I work a certain type of tech support in my job so I know there is still room for this to be a user problem!)

Sounds like the problem may be one of expectations and not with the software. First off, you can never judge what your output MAY look like based on the preview window. The preview window is merely a tool to help with editing, it does not represent in any way what the quality of the finished product will be appearance-wise. Second, outputting to .wmv puts certain constraints on a finished project that will affect overall quality in ways that outputting to DVD format will not. To judge one by the other is asking for disappointment. I know you're evaluating the product, but before you put to much more time and effort into being disappointed I think you need to assess exactly what your abilities are, your expectations should be, and whether the fault lies with the product or the user. Not to be mean, but your naivete regarding tiff files as posted earlier leads me to believe this is a user problem and not a software one.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:24 am

For what it is worth, doing slide shows in VS has always presented a range of problems for certain users, though by no means all. I had some problems with VS7 slideshows, and so bought Movie Factory 2.0 as it then was. And it did slideshows with no difficulty or complication. Just insert the photos, add titles, transitions, background music and it invariably worked. And I find the same with all subsequent versions of MF -- now into MF6. And sure, you can still load background music and all sorts of other things.

That being said, I now find that VS, since at least version VS9, has improved its ability to handle slideshows out of sight. But we still have certain users who have difficulties such as you are experiencing. And I am afraid there never seems to be any simple answer. As you have already found, some users advise cutting down the size or frame format of your photos, others say use one format (JPEG) or another (BMP, TIFF).

I happen to be the other type of user who has a quite good digital still camera (Canon Rebel 300D 5 MP and more recently a Canon IS100 8 MP as well) and shoot with high resolution. Yet I never find I have to change my photos in any way when I insert them into a slideshow in either VS or MF -- and they come out as clear and crisp as anything. I have no idea why it is easy for me and hard for you. Sorry.

So definitely give MF a try. I am not aware of any complaints about slideshows in that program. Mind you, I also have to admit that I don't follow that forum anything near as assiduously as I do this one!!

EDIT: after posting the above, I have seen Cyclewriter's post. I have to say that I agree with him about the WMV thing at least. I too was a bit mystified as to why you used that format. It is really only meant as a web format -- though I acknowledge that you may only be trying out VS and web playback of a slideshow also needs to be clear. But it is a format which VS has some difficulty with (as it is not really meant to be an editable format), takes ages to render into using VS, and equally will almost inevitably produce poor results when converting to DVD compatible mpeg-2 (apart from taking ages to convert compared to other formats).

kappbr · Post by **kappbr** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:47 pm

Ken,

Well, in a sense it is good to know that others have had the same struggles; sanity check for me!

I have tried Movie Factory 6 quickly, and it worked great, as regards quality. For the extent of things I plan to do, at least in the near future, I will go with it (and save $50 !).

I do want to do both, DVD and .wmv, the later to put on my web page. I know I had not indicated this previously. So, for .wmv I'll use Windows Movie Maker.

I appreciate everyone's input and helpl.

Brian