Making perfect 3X DVD's from HDV camcorder

[dhmark]

I am trying to make extremely simple 20 minute HD DVD's on regular DVD media from my Canon HV20 camcorder. Just adding a title at the beginning and a few chapter marks, no menu, nothing more.
I have been successful from beginning to end doing this (yea), and producing playable discs on a toshiba HD DVD player.
However, the picture seems jerkier when compared to viewing the tape with camcorder plugged into the TV. When the camera motion is smooth, the disc is identical to the tape, but camera shake seems exaggerated.

Playing the captured video file on my PC using Windows Media Viewer shows a very smooth playback, seems to be exactly the same as playing the tape on TV, seeming to indicate that the captured video file is perfect.
Is there some setting that I need to adjust when burning to get a 3X disc to play identical to the tape? Isn't a 3X disc simply taking your captured file as is and not reencoding it in any way?

I have set the project properties to correspond to the properties of the captured video files, and the box is checked to not convert compliant MPEG files. I presume (but do not know for sure) that that HDV captured files are "compliant." My laptop (2 ghz core 2 Dell) takes about 1 hour to render the movie, another 15 minutes to burn, so it seems like it is doing something to the captured files. Total size of the burned DVD is about the same as the captured mpg file.

Sorry for the long-winded description, I am new to editing, and think there must be some simple step I am missing.

dhmark

[Ken Berry]

Please do not double post. Your earlier identical question has already been answered -- see http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 351#148351

[dhmark]

Sorry for the breach in etiquette. I think I learned the answer to my question, which was not simply "learn to make a DVD." I had been burning the project directly to disc. When I changed the process to 2 steps, first create a video file, then burn the video file as an HD DVD, then the discs looked great.
My question is why isn't it made clear that you should do this in the instructions, and why is the video quality better when you use the two step process? Options are provided to burn the disc with the same properties as the project, but even when you match these, and burn the project directly to disc, the quality suffers. It also takes much longer than doing it in two steps. The rendering step in the one-stage process screws up the video somehow.
Anyway, skimming through old posts provided the impetus to try it this way, although it is unclear to me why it works better.
dhmark

[etech6355]

When I changed the process to 2 steps, first create a video file, then burn the video file as an HD DVD, then the discs looked great.

That's exactly how you burn a dvd, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray disk, my exception has been for avchd disk. For AVCHD disks I let them be re-encoded in the burning module.
The first question I ever posted about VS 6 was the same as yours. Hasn't changed. Going into the burning module.
This is the thing to remember in any version of VS. When you go into the burning module it's the "Project File" that's being carried over into the burning module, it's not the video itself (the actual hd-mpeg2 file you rendered from the timeline).
So you have it figured out, so if you did render the editied file from the timeline to a new video file and then went into the burning module then you will see the project file is also carried over into the burning modules timeline. Simply delete it and insert your compliant file you previously rendered.
The burning module is like a second program, hit the F6 key to set "Preferences" and the "GEAR" Icon to set "Project Settings". Also under the GEAR Icon there are 2 selections whether to force a re-encode or pass the video through IF it's compliant.
"Project Files" carried over from the timeline into the burning module are always re-encoded. Most likely you didn't use the correct settings and your HDV video was de-interlaced, making the seasick motion.

It simply takes alot of time & typing to explain how the program works. So on our end it amounts to alot of rendunant typing of the same thing, over & over again. I think it would help if the manual had a tips section that covered most of this.

In the end you have 2 options, encode from the timeline or encode in the burning module. When encoding in the burning module you must set or check the settings of the encoder under the "GEAR" Icon. You first video was probably rendered frame_based when it should have been Upper_Field_First.
When encoding from the timeline you must also set your "Project Settings" <ALT+ENTER> or "File -> Project Properties" equal to your source video(s).

[dhmark]

Your explanation makes sense, and I can see how this issue comes up again and again, because there is nothing in the manual about fields, frames, where the reencoding occurs, etc. Since HDV captured files are "compliant," I figured something was going wrong with all the time spent reencoding. some permanent source is needed to provide this info.
Dhmark

[etech6355]

dhmark,
There are other important settings that require fine tuning so VS works correctly with HDV (or any video).
After you really learn VS & ulead products it would take a book to be able to explain everything.

This is how it usually works and how I think your original project got messed up:
The "Default" project settings are "Frame_Based"
If you captured your video within VS11+ it will capture in the PS (program stream format). After capture it should have prompt you to set your 'Project Settings" equal to your source videos (answer Yes) which in turn will be transferred (or should be transferred) into the burning module when you go into the burning module. But this didn't happen. So in the end your "Project file" was rendered to whatever the "Project Settings" were setup for in the Burning module.
In the "Burning Module" I suggest making a template (lower left hand icon). Then to manually change the "Project Settings" in the burning module click on the "GEAR Icon -> Change Mpeg Settings -> Your Custom template"

Under "Preferences" VS11+ has a feature called "Notify when inserting first video clip into the timeline". The default is Off. It should be On to cause less confusion.

Now you know why my first reply was Use same method as making a dvd. I'm making up some templates to copy & paste. I've been wanting to make a HD tutorial. The reason I haven't done either of these is no matter how you do it it ends up to be a pretty lengthy post or tutorial.
Even with that one has to know at least the basics of video & audio editing, that would require another tutorial.
Steve has already written all of these in the Tutorial sections.

Here's some more tips that I use with working with HDV:
When inserting TS (transport stream) video VS wiil not notify you to change any project settings, only for PS format video, SD or HD.
So setup an empty project using all HDV settings for the timeline and the burning module (both).
Then save the project and always start VS with that template, then save under a different file name or mark the HDV template file Read_Only.
I also suggest making templates within VS, "Tools -> Make Movie Manager". Then when you want to export a customized template goto
"Share -> Create video file -> Your custom template will be at the bottom of the listing.

Try HDVSplit to capture in the TS mode, also does scene splitting: Great Program, XP or Vista:
http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvsplit.htm

[dhmark]

Hey, thanks, great advice. Two more slight quirks I think I am noticing through my initial explorations matching captured video, projects, and burning.
1. When inserting clips that were captured using HDVsplit or using rendered movies as the initial clip to begin a project, the prompt to match project settings to the video DOES NOT appear. It seems like you have to manually change the settings (or create a project template as you've suggested, a good idea).
2. Secondly, if you go directly from project to burning module (skipping the share video step), and even though all the properties match (captured video, project properties, burning module properties) you get a substandard HD disc, so it seems to preserve original video quality you MUST use the two-step process.

Relating to point 1, if the project properties and captured are matched manually, I assume that "smartrender" (no re-encoding) is still working, no?
Relating to point 2, if you skip the share video step, it seems that a re-encoding step will occur, regardless if everything is matched perfectly.

Finally, an unrelated quirk. In rendering one of my projects, I found that I would lose the audio at some arbitrary point, and then audio would be lost forever. When repeating the rendering, it would happen again at exactly the same point. Reasoning that lightning does not strike twice, I guessed that there was some quirk in the captured file at that point, where the audio and video were getting off-kilter. The captured video plays the audio fine (however). So I made a new project, editing out the small section exactly where the audio was lost. Viola, the video file and disc had complete audio.

So I am reasoning that a lot of peoples problems with crashes, failed efforts, can be traced to some problem in the capturing process. One needs to have a clean captured file. One test of a clean captured file is that it loads up and plays fully with Windows Media player. If it hiccups or doesn't respond, the captured file may have some fault.

dhmark

[etech6355]

i see it hasn't taken you to long to catch on how to program works.

Relating to point 2, if you skip the share video step, it seems that a re-encoding step will occur, regardless if everything is matched perfectly.

In the burning module and using the burning module to encode, IF your source video projects files video & audio parameters match the burning modules "Project Settings" (under the "GEAR" Icon), then smartrendering will be performed. If you select another audio format such as Dolby audio then the video will be smartrendered and the audio converted.

So I am reasoning that a lot of peoples problems with crashes, failed efforts, can be traced to some problem in the capturing process. One needs to have a clean captured file. One test of a clean captured file is that it loads up and plays fully with Windows Media player. If it hiccups or doesn't respond, the captured file may have some fault.

I've found that Windows media player appears to be written to try and play anything and still play while correcting errors. WMP will see errors and correct them, dropping frames or resyncing the audio, we just don't know it's doing this. Consumer dvd players also have error correction built-in to their firmware.
If it works for you then great, I would suggest a program like "VideoRedo" to check and repair mpeg2 video streams. It's written specially for that purpose.

I don't know why your audio was missing but it could be your tapes. I went through this and did have all sorts of problems at first because the format is mpeg2. After cleaning the heads and switching to good quaility or HDV certified tapes I can't remember having any dropouts. I've been using one brand which matches the camcorder, mine is a Sony so I use either the Sony Premium Blue Standard DV or the Sony HDV Certified tapes.
Depending on the project I'll record onto the HDV tape, then write back the final project to a Standard DV tape to archive.

When smartrendering mpeg2 video there's also a difference between the TS and PS format. Programs can smartrender the PS format very fast, like copying. When smartrendering TS format the whole stream needs to be re-packetized, this takes longer.

I've found it's not always easy to tell if your source mpeg2 videos are corrupted or not without running them through an analyzer . Only specialized mpeg2 editors and analyzers can tell, programs like "VideoRedo" which has a nice program in it called "StreamFix".

When capturing with VS11+ or other programs if your files are being split when trying to capture the whole tape then the programs are getting bad reads (tape errors). They will usually close that file (stream) and start capturing to a new file. So if you captures are being split spontaneously i would first consider/suspect the condition of the tape. The errors I was getting were from brand new tapes. Guess they just weren't compatible with my Sony cam.