Field order consistency throughout workflow

[sgraham]

I Capture in VS11 from video shot at 1080i hi def from Canon XL1H. It arrives in the form of an MPG2 with Upper Field First. I have seen no way to choose the field order on Capture so I use this default (UFF) and then set my project properties to UFF and MPG2. I do my editing and then export in MPG2. I usually cut this file up in Windows Media Encoder. Everything seems ok but I read some posts that lower field first is the accurate sequence. Sanity check appreciated.

[Black Lab]

If your footage is recorded in UFF, then that is what has to be kept, thru editing and burning.

If your footage is LFF, then that is what the settings should be for editing and burning.

You cannot mix UFF and LFF clips in the same project because one of them would be the incorrect field order.

[lespurgeon]

DV(SD) and HDV use different settings. I always have to look it up if I have to know (like you I just use the setting from the HDV cam.) but i think DV is LFF, while HD is UFF.

[heinz-oz]

Your camera manual should tell you. MiniDV is LFF but analog captured to DV-Avi is UFF. HD, depending on camera and format could also be frame based (progressive scan)

[etech6355]

Yes, if your camcorder is HDV (High Definition) and you are capturing in HDV mode then it's UFF.
You should have the option under "Preferences" checked ON "Notify when inserting first video clip into timeline". After you capture this box will be displayed and VS11+ will automatically set the Project Settings in accordance to the captured source videos.

[sgraham]

I set notify when inserting first clip into timeline and I see how VS11 will line up the project properties with the source video. I am capturing in HD out of the XLH1 (at 25000BPS) and the capture comes in as MPG2 with UFF. I have been used to working in .AVI files so it all is a bit new. I'm keeping UFF set across the board, including when I cut the DVD. I've been reading that PAL DVDs are UFF and NTSC are LFF. The DVD seems to play ok in my recorder. Will older NTSC version DVD players have a problem with playing DVD set with UFF or will it play and be jittery video?

[etech6355]

The notify doesn't always work with some formats, like Transport Stream files.
DVD's for PAL and NTSC use both UFF/LFF and frame-based/progressive video..
The important thing is to retain the fielding on the dvd the same as the source video.

Standard DV is usually LFF.
I have a Sony HC3 cam, when I capture in HDV it's UFF.
When I use the internal downcovert to DV and capture standard DV then it's LFF.

[sgraham]

I am capturing the HD footage I shot as HD with MPG2-T with UFF. I'm trying now to see if converting it to an .AVI to use in the project will help me get better WMV quality. When I keep it MPG2 UFF and export to MPG2 UFF full project, the quality looks great but when I use Windows Media encoder to render, it looks worse than when I was using .AVI files. The captured file sizes are the same for the HD camera as they were for the SD camera but the quality is much higher with the HD camera output. Why the .WMV file (at same Bitrate ~ 1400) looks worse is driving me nuts. I have focused on and tested with WM Encoder. All that is left is to try to convert MPG2 to .AVI and hope.

[etech6355]

It sounds like your not customizing the WMV correctly.
They should look great encoded at 8000kbs, which is 1/3 the file size.
I wouldn't use the VS templates, mine encode at to high a bit-rate.

It's rather hard to explain all the settings in Media Encoder 9.
I use either Video 9 or Video 9 Profession and audio as xxxx_9.2.
When you customize a WMV Profile you export the template PRX file back to the harddisk to use it to encode that session & future encodes.

You can encode hd-wmv using your hdv videos as the source.

If your using Vista, Windows MovieMaker 6 has a nice 1440x1080 16:9 template. The videos it makes are nice and the encode is fast.

[sgraham]

I'm running my WMV files out at about 1,250BPS. I've got WMV Encoder heavily tuned (http://www.citizeninsomniac.com/WMV/) with powertoy and have cut many .WMV files for commercial sales. Interestingly, I have found the WMV option from inside VS11 is cutting them to WMV more clearly than WMV Encoder native. I setup the same settings in Encoder thru VS11. Thought it was a field domination issue. Still testing.

[randazzo]

I'm confused.

I render for PAL DVD and that has always been LFF. Nowadays I use a JVC HD7 camera which captures in UFF. BUT in VS7 I finally render in LFF because I'm in a PAL DVD country. And the final result is ok with the footage from my JVC.

Now, are you telling me I should render in UFF because the capturing is in UFF on the camera?

[Ken Berry]

Most definitely yes. You might only notice artifacts from changing field order from the original in fast moving or panning shots, or scenes which have distinct sharp lines which might displayed jagged edges. These might not be so noticeable since your original video was high definition -- but then again, I would have thought they would be *more* visible in that situation. (I don't know yet as I have only just bought a High Def camera and have not yet edited any of its footage...)

Just because you are in a PAL country has nothing to do with field order. PAL DVDs can be UFF or LFF -- it always depends on the original field order of the video you filmed.

[randazzo]

Ok. I understand. Thanks for your reply.

[randazzo]

Here I am agian. Still confused...

I've been watching my UFF source material at rendered LFF PAL DVD's. And the material just looks great. No jagged edges or distortion whatsoever.

And I'm trying to grasp it. But isn't the field order important depending
on the kind of apparatus we will be watching the rendered material??.

Rendering on a pc will be frame-based and rendering for a pal DVD will be LFF. Otherwise I do not understand why my dvd's look so terrific on my TV-screen.

Kind regards,
Jean-Pierre

[Black Lab]

Otherwise I do not understand why my dvd's look so terrific on my TV-screen.

Call yourself lucky.